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Old 09-25-2007, 06:24 PM   #166
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I don't think I have insulted anybody's mentality here and if I did I am sorry.
I think we freely throw around labels at times for people who do things different - paranoid, sheep, etc. We already worked that out in the SMC thread though.

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Danny at SMC also said li-pos should not be used competitively too and that I totally disagree with and do not intent on buying any SMC products for him making that statement.
I agree and if they are successful at selling packs it won't be because of the battery matcher mentality they tried to present in that tread. However, more companies producing packs will only accelerate acceptance no matter their goal.

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I don't really think MaxAmps cares about ROAR because they sell so many soft pack li-po batteries to racers that race at non-ROAR membership tracks. Same path brushless motors took and now they are ROAR legal.
Turn it around though. If ROAR legalizes only lipos with hardcases (which is very possible) do you think Maxamps will choose to miss that boat? I bet they are already ready for that eventuality and suddenly that option will become available. If they aren't ready, they aren't good businessmen.
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Old 09-25-2007, 06:38 PM   #167
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Also I don't really care for the small capacity packs due to the limited run time. I like the 6000 and especially the 8000 mah packs that are close to what a 6 cell nickel pack weighs that most RC vehicles are designed for.
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Old 09-25-2007, 07:30 PM   #168
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Not meaning to disagree, but I was there with him wrecking the official record holding car after the back up or 2nd run and the 164 mph car was crashed on the 164 mph run and was unable to back it up due to the damage. That was the only reason he did not get 164 mph as the record.

My gas powered junk whould not stick that slick track.
I didn't know he crashed both cars

But still same thing the batteries were fine.



Also will this help or hurt the li-po market, and the chances of li-po's being legal?
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Old 09-25-2007, 09:48 PM   #169
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Again, please, what exactly is your concern with being required to use a hard case? I understand you don't think you need it, etc...but why is it a problem?

I really think you're missing the forest for the trees. If hard cases are the "fast track" and they hurt nothing, why fight it? Remember, your track can do pretty much whatever they want to do.

As far as off-road, which seems to be your specific interest, again you're dealing with a surface that will not be harmed if there's a spill or fire. Carpet is the big concern, and ROAR (nor anybody else) is going to spec one battery for carpet and another for everything else. Just like they're not going to overly complicate things by requiring hard backs on "plate" cars and allow non-protected in "tub" cars.

But really, I'm honestly interested in what your REAL beef is with the cases beyond the "but I don't need it" argument. What do they hurt?
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Old 09-26-2007, 05:59 AM   #170
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Again, please, what exactly is your concern with being required to use a hard case? I understand you don't think you need it, etc...but why is it a problem?

I really think you're missing the forest for the trees. If hard cases are the "fast track" and they hurt nothing, why fight it? Remember, your track can do pretty much whatever they want to do.

As far as off-road, which seems to be your specific interest, again you're dealing with a surface that will not be harmed if there's a spill or fire. Carpet is the big concern, and ROAR (nor anybody else) is going to spec one battery for carpet and another for everything else. Just like they're not going to overly complicate things by requiring hard backs on "plate" cars and allow non-protected in "tub" cars.

But really, I'm honestly interested in what your REAL beef is with the cases beyond the "but I don't need it" argument. What do they hurt?
I think you are missing my point that I don't feel being required something I think is totally unnecessary, but again that is my preference with my 4 years of data points that I don't think anybody posting here can match experience with li-po powered off-road racing.

I have a better idea, why not make a rule for TC and Oval that they are required to have an enclosed hardcase battery box for no matter what kind of battery is placed in it. This box would be made permanently mounted to the the car and would eliminate the need for a hardcase on the li-po all together. This case would protect those fragile nickel cells along with the li-pos from hard crashes causing damage to both that you guys are so worried about. Make the rule for the car type and not the battery since it is obvious most off-road RCs don't need any kind of case at all!

Mount the battery box with padding on the car and it stays on the car all the time.

This is a win win situation for all and the car manufacturers could make the optional battery boxes that would very easy be mounted and secured to the car with no problems. Simple solution for all and everybody could pick from a larger choice of li-pos to use with soft packs.

There you guys have the safety of the battery in a box deal with the economy of soft packs.
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Old 09-26-2007, 06:02 AM   #171
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I didn't know he crashed both cars

But still same thing the batteries were fine.



Also will this help or hurt the li-po market, and the chances of li-po's being legal?
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=LOSB9607
By the wire size this looks like for smaller batteries like RX and TX packs, but I don't really know. I don't think it could run an 8 amp charge through it that I prefer with 8000 mah batteries.
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Old 09-26-2007, 06:48 AM   #172
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By the wire size this looks like for smaller batteries like RX and TX packs, but I don't really know. I don't think it could run an 8 amp charge through it that I prefer with 8000 mah batteries.
It is supposed to be good for use up to 6s!!
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:11 AM   #173
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I think you are missing my point that I don't feel being required something I think is totally unnecessary, but again that is my preference with my 4 years of data points that I don't think anybody posting here can match experience with li-po powered off-road racing.
No...EVERYBODY gets that you don't want to be required...but that does not answer the question asked. WHAT is the objection to the hard case.

The refusal to answer points me to one conclusion, that you it is 100% "cost" issue since there is absolutely no measureable performance detriment. The sad things are:

1) Cost is going to be a non-issue when mfr's are required to provide hard cased batteries to meet requirements. Jack and Danny were quite clear that the cost (I'm sure at the mfr level) would be "pennies". Pennies at the mfr level mean a buck or two at the retail level.

2) It sounds like you would rather hold the WHOLE LiPo train back than possibly accept an inconsequential compromise. What fairytale land do you live in that you always get things exactly the way you want them to be, never having to compromise. The insane thing is it is a compromise that DOESN'T HURT.

Your argument is EXACTLY like a four year old..."I don't wanna! I don't wanna!". Trust me, we COMPLETELY understand that "you don't wanna". What we're after is WHY you don't wanna. Until you can articulate the reason why, why should ANYBODY give it any credence? Why are you unable to be honest and give your reason. I'm having trouble believing it is just an absolutely irrational "can't have that near me" thing like fear of spiders or snakes. Maybe it is, though, since you have absolutely not answered the question the three times I've directly asked it.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:18 AM   #174
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What part of "not necessary" do you not understand!

I thought that was an excellent idea to make the battery box part of the car! What is wrong with that idea? The rule could be with the car and not the battery itself. Win Win solution!

Your resorting to name calling is getting you nowhere and no creditably in the discussion. Please stick to the topic.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:25 AM   #175
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The World's Fastest RC Car Challenge that RC Car Action Magazine puts on every year has all the electric powered cars including the record holder using soft pack li-pos in them just held in with velcro straps at speeds in excess of 100 to 125 mph with alot them hitting the concrete barrier along the track destroying the car with not one case of a li-po fire at this event in the 2 years they have held it. A true test of soft pack li-pos and should be a good example of how safe they really are.

Just go the the RCZone thread for the event and see all the pictures of these radical RCs with soft packs stacked up inside the cars. Here is alink to the threads: http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/f...play.php?f=342

This is Nic Case's car that set the record the first year at 134 mph that was crashed and the batteries reused in another car that went unofficially 164 mph. Note the soft pack batteries in the car stacked up.


Another pic of this years 127 mph car complete with soft pack li-pos:
I thought this most extreme example of crashes of TC cars or pan cars would be the extreme example of crashes over 125mph into a concrete barrier and the batteries reused is strong evidence to the safety of soft packs. Carpet TCs may get to whooping 35 mph with no concrete walls around to crash into.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:30 AM   #176
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The hard case will limit the mah that can be packed inside it. currently we need 6000 to 8000 for the 20 min mains. It can not be done with the current hard case technology.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:32 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Craps View Post
What part of "not necessary" do you not understand!

I thought that was an excellent idea to make the battery box part of the car! What is wrong with that idea? The rule could be with the car and not the battery itself. Win Win solution!

Your resorting to name calling is getting you nowhere and no creditably in the discussion. Please stick to the topic.
If you read closely you will see there is NO name calling done.

And again you refuse to answer what should be a reasonably simple question.

Where is the credibility gap?
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:37 AM   #178
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The hard case will limit the mah that can be packed inside it. currently we need 6000 to 8000 for the 20 min mains. It can not be done with the current hard case technology.
OK--an anwer that makes sense.

REMEMBER...you can do, as a club, pretty much ANYTHING your heart desires. Even if ROAR approved LiPo tomorrow there is no way I see them suddenly upping the length of races (again, at ROAR events) by anywhere NEAR the quadruple change you're doing. I seriously doubt they'll even double TC EVER...and stock TC can easily make 10 minutes with batteries we have now. I doubt we 1/12 scalers will EVER change from 8-minutes. In the tighter confines/closer tollerance racing of 1/12 not many can maintain the neccessary concentration for 8 minutes. We experimented with a "Long Distance" class two years ago and drivers who are HOT in normal heats were DEFINITELY showing dramatic signs of fatigue (and driving suffered) in 15 minute heats.

But do you really believe they can't somehow, someday "wedge" 8000mah into the box the size of a current 6-cell pack? When I started racing the biggest mah was 1200. Then it increased 25% to 1500, and on and on. Now we're racing with cells that have almost four times that original capacity in a container that is just a skosh bigger than it was 20 years ago. In the last two years alone sub-C's have increased over 1/3 in capacity (3300's to 4600's) at a point in their development cycle where you'd never believe such large increases were possible. I fully believe that an Orion (or whoever) hard-case LiPo could be 8000mah in very short order, but I can certainly understand that you wouldn't want to wait if you're doing it now. Wouldn't be my choice, but I absolutely understand the draw for some people.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:50 AM   #179
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Since this is an Off Road thread what does it matter in this forum the length of TC race or if it needs a hardcase li-po?

The Indy 500 has 4 laps of qualifying for it and they don't just race for 4 laps in the Indy 500 or the Daytona 500 or the Talledega 500 or etc. so why race a main the same length as the qualifiers?
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:51 AM   #180
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In my area electric has made a strong come back because the local trackes have increased the length of the races to equal the nitro races. It doesnt really mater because 99% of the racer population does not race ROAR events but it would be nice if the ROAR accepted battery would be able to make a 20 min main.
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