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Old 08-02-2007, 07:37 PM   #1
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Default HEads up: ordering from associated's website.

Couldn't seem to find a better forum for this, so here it is.

If you place a web order on AE's website, your CC will be pre-authorized for some unrelated (and much greater) amount of money. It should be noted that nowhere I could find during the process of placing my order was it stated that this would be done.

I ordered a partial t4 for 79.99 + 8.00 ship. They pre-authorized my card for 175.00 and *then* charged me 79.99. I never received an email stating that this was a mistake so I can only assume this is standard practice.

What upsets me even more about this is the fact that it is completely uncalled for due to the nature of the order form. Basicly your redirected to what is supposed to be a secure form. Along the redirection route your browser will notify you that the security tag is expired (nice). Once you get to the form you fill out *everything* at once. The reason the pre-authorization is ridiculous is because nothing is placed realtime. The form is simply forwarded to a AE associate and processed in office.

So if you are sitting at your desk at AE with a printed form in you hand detailing my name, goods desired, and CC information, why on earth do you need a pre-authorization?

1: Check over order form
2: Attempt to charge the card for the total amount
3: Charge goes through
4: process the goods

It's simple, and I don't understand why I have the need to have 175.00 tied up ASIDE from the 87.00 charged for the goods already. It makes zero sense, and this is just a heads up to everyone considering placing a web order in the future. The folks at AE obviously feel no need to tell you what I am telling you or they would have been kind enough to place a notice on the site about it.

I can't even imagine what happens to the form after they are done with it, but I seriously dislike the thought of picturing my CC info on a printout and can only hope it's handled in office more securely then it was handled online.

What further burns me up about this (and should concern those of you whom it applies to) is using your bank debit card or Paypal debit card to place the order. It is obvious that AE didn't think about the fact that using these forms of CC places that hold on REAL FUNDS. It's not an imaginary 175.00 on hold, it's MY money on hold for the next few days. If I want it, I can't have it.

All in all AE tied up 175.00 of my spending money for absolutly zero reason. Because of this I henceforth refuse to patronize AE in any manner outside of a bricks & mortar local retailer. I am not slandering AE or suggesting you avoid them in any way, but if your considering placing a web order through the site, think twice before you do.

Screen shot of pre-authorization placed on the 30th (certain info blocked out)



Screen shot of actual charge for items I ordered, placed on the 31st.




- Matt
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Last edited by TechWun; 08-02-2007 at 09:16 PM. Reason: amount correction, addition of screenshots.
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:30 PM   #2
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Oh wow thats not good.
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Old 08-02-2007, 11:43 PM   #3
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Somewhat related-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_DSS

The new credit card storage security standards , while necessary, are an absolute headache to work around. Especially with an office full of idiots who tell each other their workstation passwords and tape a sticky note with their password to the bottom of their keyboard......


I'm wondering how AE handles the storage of your CC#. In order to be PCI compliant, they aren't supposed to store the card # with the CVV code, but if they have everything printed on paper, the chances that they store both rather than one are alot higher. Better hope nobody at AE ever swipes any card info.. the fines are insane.
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Old 08-04-2007, 11:17 AM   #4
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It's like that on anything. If you CC to "pay at the pump". It charges like $100 (depending on station) to cover the $75 you will pump. Then they work out the real price. It probably isn't AE. It's the card user they have chosen.
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Old 08-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #5
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Doesn't surprise me.
That website is the worst around.

I think they got a chimp to do the coding.
For a company as big as AE, you would think they would have hired professionals to do the site.
If it was professionals...never hire them again.
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Old 08-05-2007, 07:59 AM   #6
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It's like that on anything. If you CC to "pay at the pump". It charges like $100 (depending on station) to cover the $75 you will pump. Then they work out the real price. It probably isn't AE. It's the card user they have chosen.
I'm going to have to beg to differ on some of this. The intent of this post was not to start an argument with anyone, but a mere consumer heads up.

You state that 'it's like that with anything' But it's really not. Yeah you get held at the pump, but thats different. At a gas pump the pumps have no idea when to stop as they have no real-time information on your balance. So they make an attempt to authorize what they think is the maximum amount of gas/$$ you can get into your car, which is usually 50 bucks around here. And if it goes through they feel the pump will shut itself off when your full. However if I walk through a mall for example, card in hand I can charge up a storm and nobody there pre-authorizes anything. You pay and receive on the spot. Restaurants = same thing.

If I were to take a wild guess I would say AE did that to make sure the web orders were not wasting they're time when they processed the order, but all they had to do to ensure that was attempt to get the 87 bucks from me. Where did the 175 come from? Totally uncalled for!

Here's the scenario and why I placed this warning -

Young kid works full time has little money. Saves his pennies and decides he's got the extra money in his bank account to buy himself a web special. He's gonna just build his car piece buy piece. Kid places order without any advance warning posted on the website about a possible pre-authorization in XXX dollars. Kid is happy and waits for his car.

While waiting for his car he's got some bills to pay. Let's say cell phone and car insurance for the month. Maye he's a little older and has his own food budget of about 50/week. For those 3-7 business days AE placed that lump on his funds, he can't have any of that money for those things.

What makes matters worse is when he tries to get the monies, and the bank that was nice enough to sucker him into overdraft protection let's him use the money that he *thinks* he has at a checkout counter somewhere, he's in for a rude awakening when the $35.00 fee shows up. If he think's that 175.00 is available along with the rest of his monies, he may use the card for a FEW things. He get's nailed $35/hit for every shot.

-

Not everything is a 'credit' account. That was the point. If you use a gold card with a 5k limit to place the order, the pre-authorization comes and goes and you could generally care less. It's not the same for debit users. There needs to be a warning on the site.

Luckily for me, I didn't miss the 175.00 while it was away, even thought I'm upset about the who deal. But we got plenty of youngins around here and they should be informed. Furthermor I agree it *could* be the merchant account they hold thats causing the problem, but even so, you place the order on AE's site, so AE needs to place the warning. I refuse to believe they have no idea this is being done regardless of who's doing it.

And they REALLY SHOULD nix the webmaster..

- Matt
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Last edited by TechWun; 08-05-2007 at 08:02 AM. Reason: added something
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Old 08-05-2007, 07:26 PM   #7
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The other day I tryed getting on there site. And for some reason it keeps freezing up and then crashes my internet.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:39 PM   #8
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Actually, when you pay with a credit card at a restaurant or store or whatever, the amount purchased is put on 'hold' on that card. Your funds are merely verified to be in your account.
No withdrawal from your account from the retailer is made until they run thier credit card batch software, which is usually at the end of the day, depending on the store.

I'm thinking AE is putting the full price of the kit on hold through their site (which we all know they suck at maintaining), then manually changing the price to the sale price when actually processing the order.

Still no excuse, it's not the right way to do things at all.
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Old 08-06-2007, 12:15 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TechWun View Post
What makes matters worse is when he tries to get the monies, and the bank that was nice enough to sucker him into overdraft protection let's him use the money that he *thinks* he has at a checkout counter somewhere, he's in for a rude awakening when the $35.00 fee shows up. If he think's that 175.00 is available along with the rest of his monies, he may use the card for a FEW things. He get's nailed $35/hit for every shot.

Thats the only issue I have really. At the bank I work at you have to pay 10 bucks a year for a CR account, and its 8 bucks to dip into it when you overdraw your account. Where you get your 35 bucks I dont know, maybe your bank sucks, but to say banks "sucker" people in, when they have to be pre-qualified before even getting SOPP, it a lil out of line.

But continue with your rant.
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Old 08-06-2007, 03:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechWun View Post
...

What makes matters worse is when he tries to get the monies, and the bank that was nice enough to sucker him into overdraft protection let's him use the money that he *thinks* he has at a checkout counter somewhere, he's in for a rude awakening when the $35.00 fee shows up. If he think's that 175.00 is available along with the rest of his monies, he may use the card for a FEW things. He get's nailed $35/hit for every shot.

...
as i recall, you cannot be charged with an overdraft unless your 'actual' funds borrowed exceeds your credit limit. pre-authorizations only impact your available credit and, since there is no transfer of principle, lending institutions would not allowed to charge interest or penalties (overdraft), on that.

i agree with the initial thread poster in that the seller should fully disclose the terms of the sale.
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Old 08-06-2007, 04:14 AM   #11
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how can you partial order a T4?
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Old 08-06-2007, 04:14 AM   #12
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how can you partial order a T4?
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:43 AM   #13
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Thats the only issue I have really. At the bank I work at you have to pay 10 bucks a year for a CR account, and its 8 bucks to dip into it when you overdraw your account. Where you get your 35 bucks I dont know, maybe your bank sucks, but to say banks "sucker" people in, when they have to be pre-qualified before even getting SOPP, it a lil out of line.

But continue with your rant.
Warning != Rant

And I have questioned several banks in my area about the overdraft fees and none of them come in under 30 bucks a hit. This information is a few years old but they were banks like PNC, National City, etc. Not small chains or stand alone banks. It is also common knowledge (and recently acknowledged in a news article) that banks usually slip the overdraft protection under your nose when you sign up for your checking account without ever mentioning the consequences of your overdrafts OR the option to refuse the protection.

The CR account you mention is not part of the issue and was never even mentioned.

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Old 08-06-2007, 05:45 AM   #14
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how can you partial order a T4?

Tony,

You just need to go here:

http://www.teamassociated.com/misc/i...t_specials.htm

Submit your CC, name, address and all your other personal information over an unsecured connection, wait for them to bill you way more then they sell the kit for, and it shows up

Mine just arrived and I love it.

- Matt
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Old 08-06-2007, 05:47 AM   #15
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as i recall, you cannot be charged with an overdraft unless your 'actual' funds borrowed exceeds your credit limit. pre-authorizations only impact your available credit and, since there is no transfer of principle, lending institutions would not allowed to charge interest or penalties (overdraft), on that.

i agree with the initial thread poster in that the seller should fully disclose the terms of the sale.
I'm speaking of debit here, not credit. You could be right, but are we on the same page? I don't know.

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