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Old 07-24-2007, 11:01 PM   #31
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I'm in for it. I just need help on how to setup since I've been racing my 4 wheels on mod like how tight the slipper should be and what pinion to use.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:05 PM   #32
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Most of us go through that awkward stage in our racing. The only thing you can do is keep trying. Racing the next level up will improve your skills faster then lapping novice drivers. It sounds like you are doing your best to pull out of the way but get right back in line and try and follow the leaders. As you loose sight of him and the next guy gets you do the same thing. Keep pushing and you will get there. It just takes time and practice.

Again I see this as a class to get all those shelved "for club use only" 4wd's out to the races. Is it a perfect solution to all of racings problems? No. I am just kind of wondering if there is enough interest in the idea for race promoters to offer the class. I will be keeping my eye on that JC race coming up to see how it goes.

Thanks for all the comments so far and keep up the constructive converstation.
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:09 AM   #33
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Id like a 19T 4WD, if anything to learn how to drive the things before going all out in mod. Yeah you can run a 19T in the mod class, but how much fun will it be to get motored every lap or put yourself at a disadvantage?
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:51 AM   #34
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Casper, thank you for the encouragement. I have no intention of giving up. I am far too competitive in nature to do such a thing. lol

I just feel bad when I have a bad night that finds me running 14 laps to the leaders 18, like I shouldnt have even been on the same track.

Guys at the track say I am progressing fine and I continue to get faster each week, I guess that is all I can hope for for the near future.

I signed up for my first race outside of club racing, it will be next month. I hope to leave there without egg on my face, or at least not too much of it. lol
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Old 07-25-2007, 12:54 AM   #35
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Do your best and learn from it. Big racing is much different from club racing. The competition is harder and the delay between races make it harder to get in a rythm. Just go out there with no expectations, do your best and learn as much as you can! Most important have fun!
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Old 07-25-2007, 01:20 AM   #36
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In general, I think it would be a cool class...on the other hand, I think there are way too many somewhat arbitrary motor-based classes in electric at this point.

We'd probably all be better off if it was more ability-based, rather than wind-based. If you don't have enough skill to win with a stocker, you aren't going to go any faster with a lower-wind motor. They don't split up the gas guys by motor...only by skill.

I've had more fun with my 4wd since I went to a slower motor (13.5 or 10.5)...and most all the guys at Pegasus had way more motor...and I can still race with them if I race smart.

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Old 07-25-2007, 05:34 AM   #37
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Sounds like a well-intended idea with the 19T class for 4wd, but like someone else reiterated earlier in the thread, it just adds to watering down the rest of the classes (i.e. Stock, 19T, Novice, mod, sportsman, and all that) and I think that part of what is hurting electric right now with the dilution that has been taking place in the past few years.

However what I think would really help right now and appeal to more racers is perhaps at bigger events, you could sign up for separate 4wd class in terms of skills level, namely Factory class and Expert (another name for Sportsman) class. For instance I remember one Norrca Off-road Nationals in the past they had a great idea and program format that I think should be more aggressively implemented and promoted to racers now days to increase attendance and appeal. They had “Factory 4wd” (for all the factory paid and the higher up and faster experienced sponsored drivers), and “Expert 4wd” (which has a nice ring to it rather than calling it Sportsman which it in fact it really was intended to be, no joke, lol) for the rest of the racers that did not want to compete directly with the factory paid or faster sponsored drivers. The rule was, no sponsored or Factory drivers were permitted to compete in the “Expert Class”.

I think that would work out nicely, and you could do the same for 2wd, truck. As the trend is going now days and the future to come, I hardly think people are no longer going to have three separate motors/esc combos for each of their cars (i.e. stock, 19T, and mod) but rather show up with one brushless system that can do it all. What are you going to tell a newbie/or someone that recently purchased a brushless set-up already installed in their 4wd, that they would have to invest in an entirely new set up on top if they want to compete in another 4wd class? Exactly my point, no need to increase costs or requirement to purchase additional equipments as it is. For myself, competing in that 4wd 19T class, I’ll hate have to purchase an entirely new brushless or a new esc/19Tmotor set-up just to simply be allowed to compete in it, when I would like to just drive it in with the current equipment I already have installed in the 4wd, as opposed to spending additional money, cost, and time on a entirely new system, and set-up.

Hence my reasoning for giving us racers the option to sign up for Factory and Expert classes at bigger events, long as the rule that "No Factory drivers or heavily sponsored drivers are permitted to competed in the Expert classes" to keep it fun and fair to run in for us racers, and that aspect is enforced to make it more appealing for the average racers. I am all for it, and would love to compete in a such class, and think it would be great and awesome! I use the word Expert, instead of Sportsman because I think a lot of racers would probably prefer to say, “I won the Expert class!” you know how ego is with us racers, instead of Sportsman or 19T. I'll rather racers invest in entirely one esc/motor set-up (to reduce costs & less confusion what to get,) that can do it all, as the trend is going lately with the increase in popularity of forget it and leave it brushless motors and upcoming Li-po technology, and race in the class they like respectively. I just can’t justify myself and others investing in an entirely new esc/motor set-up, where some of us have brushless motor/esc set-up already installed in our 4wd (isn’t that what the new technology is supposed to be about, instead of investing in multiple esc/motor combos to compete in different classes?) and just want to purely run it as it is in whatever 4wd classes our skill levels dictate.

You don't see them splitting up 1/8th 4wd scale by engine sizes today, but rather by skill levels at big events and club races. In fact I know that if I race nitro, I don't have to worry about investing in multiple nitro engine combo or the like, too much hassle if that was the case. That’s the appeal of running nitro to many new racers, and it continues to attract many new racers for the fact you just can run your 1/8th scale and gas truck as it is with whatever you purchased for it. Way less confusing for sure. I think the same should be the case for electric. I believe the additional diversity classes for electric (19T, Stock, & further clouded by the push for 10.5 brushless, 13.5 brushless classes, when is it going to end? just a money maker for manufactors for the most part I believe) is just simply hurting it for the past few years, and hope for the return of the glory day of simply run what you brought to the track, and see an increase in turnouts far as electric racing goes. A lot more simplier and easier. We could learn a thing or two from our nitro counterparts for sure.

On the side, I do think its great though with all the interest generated with 4wd that've been coming out lately from Hotbodies, Kyosho, Tenth Technology on top of Losi, MRC, and X-Factory, and others, and I hope it continues!

Last edited by 4wd Racer; 07-25-2007 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 07-25-2007, 07:26 AM   #38
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Just to reply to the post above.Have ou ever seen a nitro event?the dont seperate thm by different sie engines and most of them nitro guys are the biggest hacks I have ever seen.way to much power for most racers out there.I cant stand marshelling nitro guys.lol
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:21 AM   #39
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A couple comments. There are a lot of brushed/brushless ESC's out there these days so getting a $40 motor to run this class is something I do not see as a huge disadvantage but there are those that buy dedicated brushless setups and for those there is still a mod class.

As for gas. 75% of those guys have no idea how to control the power they have. If they are having fun more power to them. (no pun intended) Gas racing does not have the choices we have in electric and electric motors are much cheaper so having "spec" classes is easier on the wallet. Maybe separating the pro's from everyone else again is the answer. 20-30 pro's battling it out is not a bad show. Then let the rest of the guys battle it out for there own title? Another good idea.

I guess I see it kind of this way. Given a choice in a mod class guys are going to motor up. If your skills are not there what's the result? Driving over your head and breaking your car. Not many have fun doing this but there are a few sedistic individuals that get off on breaking there cars! A 19T motor is plenty of speed to have fun and for most "average" joes out there they will run faster lap times and break less due to the reduction in speed. With everyone going relativly the same speed most do not need to worry about being in the way of that pro with the 9X1 in there car. Call it what ever you want but I just think there are enough people with 4wd cars that do not race them at big events anymore since running pro mod 4wd is not fun for them. Maybe a 19T 4wd might appeal to them. Had the 4wd class not been at some of the highest levels in the 15 years I have been racing I would not even have brought this topic up.
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Old 07-25-2007, 08:44 AM   #40
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Completely understandable and valid comments you made Casper. Sounds good in all the points you made Sorry for rambling on in a such a long post earlier, I too like you and many others here, just want to simply bring back the popularity of 4wd and electric racing in general to a stronger level than what it is today. Perhaps hopefully one day we will see a return to run what you brought to the track and the fun appeal with high turnouts. The topic you brought up is a good one, and worth considering for sure. Maybe it would be good like you said to have 20-30 Pro's battle it out in their own Expert class, while us racers battle it out for our own title in a different class (Intermediate?), lol. Anyways, I was wondering how is that new Kyosho 2wd working out for you since you switched over from Losi, and do you plan to get their 4wd as well? I might be interested in trying out their cars eventually.

For many that do not know, Casper has been racing for many years and is very dedicated to the racing that he does, and competes at one of the highest level against many factory/sponsored racers from the results I’ve seen. So he has experience, and knows what he talking about for sure with his passion for electric racing.

Everyone FYI, I Just found a thread on RC Tech on a similar but unrelated topic on multiple electric classes…

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...=1#post3517679
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:01 AM   #41
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Thanks for the kind comments 4wd!

I understand all sides of these arguments. This is a big race suggestion. For the club racing scene I totally support the run what you brung mantality. Group everyone together and go have some fun! Club racing should be relaxed and everyone having a good time. You will get the novice to the pro racing together and it should be a time for the experienced racers to teach the new guys. (this happens at large events as well but the club racing environment is less intimidating for sharing info!)

I have seen a trend were sportsman and expert classes have been done away with.

A local track around here had a good idea for these kinds of problems. They offer these classes for club racing:

Novice
Stock (buggy and truck)
Pro spec (buggy and truck run stock or 19T your choice!!!!!)
Mod (2wd, 4wd, truck)

If there were not enough for full class (min 4 cars) then they started grouping stocks together and mods together.

The result. Great fun racing! Low presure fun environment and people started to enjoy just being at the track again.

For small scale club racing I do not see a need for 19T 4wd as a class. I would recommend those new to 4wd racing to start with a 19T until they get the car setup and used to driving it and at this level of racing that is great. It is when you get to large races like the Shootout, Cactus, Losi race, Winter nats, JBRL etc. That the 4wd is getting 50-80 entries and I know there are guys out there that have cars that are just no interested in "getting in the way" if you were that migh sign up for a more sportsman geared class.

Are there too many classes to race these days. Depends on your point of reference and your local support.

Again thanks to all for making this a constructive comments thread!!!!!!!

We need more of these on the boards!
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Old 07-25-2007, 09:50 AM   #42
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personally hate 19T or whatever , will never race a class like that ...


If stock is too slow or boring, move up !

That what mod is all about ...
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:28 AM   #43
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As I've said many times before...my Lazer is my favorite R/C car ever. I'll be racing it somewhere, whether there's a class for 4wd or not. If there's a "mod" class, I'll be racing it...if I have to run with gas guys I'll be racing it...if I have to run with 1/8th guys, I'll be racing it.

I know I'm faster with less motor, so even in "mod", I'll be running a 13.5 or 10.5 for the forseeable future -- so I'm good to go for whatever comes up.
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:34 AM   #44
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At the end of the day... this is what it comes down to for me...


There is ONLY 1 4wd class right now. You have the fullest factory pros with the fastest cars on the planet, and total beginners, who wanna run 4 but can't even get out of the way fast enough (if they have the skill to know to get out of the way). There needs to be a 2nd class. I kind of agree, maybe stock should be left for club racing. That's why I suggested a Rookie class for all those drivers whom are beginning and are at the race anyway (locals, family members). Then a Sportsman class (truck, 2wd, 4wd) with a 19t motor limit, and a Pro Class...(Truck, 2wd, 4wd) all Mod.

I think we are getting too watered down with classes, but definately feel a need to have a seperation of skill level in 4wd, especially since it has been the biggest class and the last 3 major races I have gone too....

My .02
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Old 07-25-2007, 10:42 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripthreat View Post
At the end of the day... this is what it comes down to for me...


There is ONLY 1 4wd class right now. You have the fullest factory pros with the fastest cars on the planet, and total beginners, who wanna run 4 but can't even get out of the way fast enough (if they have the skill to know to get out of the way). There needs to be a 2nd class. I kind of agree, maybe stock should be left for club racing. That's why I suggested a Rookie class for all those drivers whom are beginning and are at the race anyway (locals, family members). Then a Sportsman class (truck, 2wd, 4wd) with a 19t motor limit, and a Pro Class...(Truck, 2wd, 4wd) all Mod.

I think we are getting too watered down with classes, but definately feel a need to have a seperation of skill level in 4wd, especially since it has been the biggest class and the last 3 major races I have gone too....

My .02
I agree, Maifield ran a 17.7 in his heat and there were guys 3-4 seconds slower in the weekend. Now he's a freak anyway, but still with that much time difference tells you how much of a gap there can be.
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