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Old 07-24-2007, 07:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
It would be a good idea to include a 19 turn class at many big races. But to prevent what has happened in touring cars, the class should be called Sportsman 4wd, not 19T 4wd.

In TC, the 19T class is dominated by pros who race both 19T and modified. In off-road, with so many 4wd manufacturers, it is highly likely you would see pro drivers racing both 4wd classes. A perfect example could be the HB or Tamiya teams. With no 2wd cars, I would expect them to enter drivers like Hara and Amezcua in this 19T class to promote the cars they offer.

Kyosho has already begun to take electric off-road down a dark path by entering their pro drivers in the 2wd clases at the Nationals

So to prevent any future problems with pro drivers invading the class, call the class Sportsman 4wd. Manufacturers and their pro drivers will stay away.


Great point GFC!!
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:33 PM   #17
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As a modified 4wd driver, I wouldn't mind a Sportsman 4wd class with a spec 19 turn motor. At the same time I feel that stock class should not be offered at nationals, only sportsman and modified (2wd, 4wd, and truck). Leave stock at home for budget club and novice drivers.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DustinR View Post
As much fun as it is...

I hate to see another class of racing get watered down with more classes.

We could do like carpet and have stock, 19t, mod, Foam, Rubber, and Brushless.

Who wants to beat 7 people at a big race to boost an ego. As it stands now the 4wd mod class at big events is the largest and most competitive. Let's keep it that way.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:51 PM   #19
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Well...i think 19t 4wd is a good concept because its somewhat of a beginner class for people getting into 4wheel.

BUT.....and this is somewhat of a piggyback on a post of mine on another thread here....i dont see the point of there being a 19t class of either 2wheel or truck when there's already stock and modified. Honestly what is someone trying to say by running 19t? "I'm better than a stock racer but i dont want to run with the big boys". 19t is NOT that much slower than modified, if you can drive 19t and be fast you can drive modified and be fast as well.

So if it was up to me there wouldnt be a 19t class, stock is for spec motor racing, if you want to step up from that GROW A PAIR and run modified.

That means you Casper, I read the results of races all the time and if you're good enough to make the main and podium at these kinds of events in stock or 19t, and you have a factory ride, you're good enough to run modified
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:01 PM   #20
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On a intresting note, a 19 turn motor (especially a really nice hand-wound 19 turn modified motor) is legal to race in the modified class, so the guys that would rather run 19 turn are free to do so, and would probably place higher than they would with a faster modified motor. Why some people feel being over-powered for the track conditions or one's own driving skill is a requirement of the modified class is beyond me.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:22 PM   #21
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On a intresting note, a 19 turn motor (especially a really nice hand-wound 19 turn modified motor) is legal to race in the modified class.
Yes, but that motor isnt legal to race in 19 turn because a 19t spec motor has to be machine wound just like in stock
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:38 PM   #22
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I'm aware of that, I was pointing out that the drivers who think they would drive better with a 19 turn motor in their 4wd can legally do so in the modified class. It was mainly in response to your statement...

Quote:
19t is NOT that much slower than modified, if you can drive 19t and be fast you can drive modified and be fast as well.
Which I disagree with. Some people are a mess in modified but can drive well with a 19 turn - I feel they can drive that 19 turn well in the modified class.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:49 PM   #23
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..........Why some people feel being over-powered for the track conditions or one's own driving skill is a requirement of the modified class is beyond me.
Ain't that the truth!
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:56 PM   #24
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I'm all for a new class if it replaces some of the existing classes. At the nats for example, get rid of stock buggy, stock truck, stock 4wd, masters stock, junior stock, and add 19T 4WD and a run what ya brung stock sportsman class.

Or maybe just have beginner (stock), sportsman (19T), and mod.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:59 PM   #25
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19T spec racing has really taken off as a popular class for trucks and buggies in the last few years. My question is how many people would like to start running a 19T 4wd class at big events? 4wd has grown in popluarity over the past few years with many new and very capable cars on the market and the class seems to be growing. I can see some people not wanting to compete with paid pro's at big events though and being there is usually only one 4wd class to run there are not a lot of choices. If you have a 4wd please voice your opinions on running a 19T 4wd class.

This class was run at the nats in place of stock 4wd and those that raced seemed to enjoy the class.

I am just thinking out loud here!



It will be just like touring car racing, all the pros would be in that as well, just for more track time..............I would consider it though
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:22 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
I'm aware of that, I was pointing out that the drivers who think they would drive better with a 19 turn motor in their 4wd can legally do so in the modified class. It was mainly in response to your statement...



Which I disagree with. Some people are a mess in modified but can drive well with a 19 turn - I feel they can drive that 19 turn well in the modified class.
Thats all well and good, there's no rule saying that you HAVE to run a 12 turn or whatever in modified...feel free to run whatever 19 or 16 or whatever turn you want. The driving style will be much the same between the two. But there does come a time where that 19 or 16 or whatever turn will be like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:55 PM   #27
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I may be the poster child for a sportsman 4wd class.

I got back into 4wd a few years back, and only had a few 19T motors in my "mod" motor box, and was happy and did decent. Never on the podium, but made it to the show more than a few times. I got talked into buying a "better" motor (12X3) and it has been downhill since then. I havent made it into an A main since. And it doesnt stop there, me being the poster child, I went from the 12, to an 11, to a 10, to brushless. Talk about handing a loaded weapon to a child (which I am not, I've been racing for 20 years). I have recently decided enough is enough, and bought (what I thought) would be a "tame" brushless (Mamba 4600, down from my GTB 6.5), and the car is still overpowered. I am going to attempt one last time to "detune" the mamba, use "soft" batteries, and race before I toss my hands in the air and put my trusty old Reedy Quad Mag back in there. I may have a knife at a gun fight, but at least I will have fun and not be utterly frustrated. I love to compete, but have gone past the point of common sense to "get an edge" and hopefully get to the show.

Am I off track? Typical of me, I hopped over a pipe, back on track....a sportsman 4wd class is a place where good stock drivers, but not good mod drivers can hone their skills and get better before attempting to drive modified. Sorta like baseball and the A-AA-AAA-Pro concept. Maybe putting a 19T label is wrong, and a sportsman label is better, either way, I see it as a way to grow the racing ranks. I see it in Nitro, novice, sportsman, expert, and sometimes a pro level above that.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:02 PM   #28
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Casper I think it's a great idea.

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Old 07-24-2007, 10:40 PM   #29
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This won't be of popular opinion but get rid of stock and 19t and split the nationals into sportsman and pro classes of 2wd, truck and 4wd. Keep it simple and have fun racing a bunch of people beside 10-25 in each class.
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:57 PM   #30
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I cannot really comment on the issue at hand, I have only been doing this about 3 months now. What I can tell relate to you all is the feeling of being too fast for novice but not quite fast enough for stock, which would make me slower than molasses in mod.

basically, at our local track, if I ran novice I would wipe the field by up to 3 laps on most nights. but in stock, I am 1 to 2 laps behind, sometimes more and depending on buggy or truck.

being an overly competitive type person, this is a hard place to be in. nothing angers me more than hearing "watch out, that is a leader coming up on you". when I am in last place, I KNOW that is a leader behind me, who else could it possibly be? lol but that is a personal pet peeve, nothing I try to respond to.

while I am getting faster all the time, I am still not of a skill level to race 19t or mod (I think), yet I am better than a novice racer. where does that leave a guy like me?

not that I cant handle losing. but I feel bad that I impede others performance by being slower than them. I try hard to get out of their way as they lap me, and for the most part I think I do a fine job of it. but there are times that I slow them down, or god forbid, hit them even in a corner or something. and then I feel so bad! like I dont even belong out there, again, my issue.

anyway. this idea makes some sense to me to some degree, I suppose it would just take me longer to get competitive with a 19t before going to mod than it will with what I run now. ??

hope that made sense?
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