R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-23-2007, 10:17 AM   #1
Tech Elite
 
Leodis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,058
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default Lipo, Indoor Tracks, & "That Guy"

The #1 reason why many indoor track owners are afraid of allowing lipos is due to safety issues. Peak/Orion hard cased lipos have been proven to be safer than today's NIMH's, but I think a lot of track owners either haven't gotten the memo or they are still afraid of what will happen when "that guy" gets ahold of them. We all know who "that guy" is. He's the dude who finds new and creative ways to blow up NIMH packs, melt speedos, trash diffs, etc...He's just an accident waiting to happen and a liability to the track.

Maybe track owners should administer a simple 20 question lipo test (kind of like a driver's license exam). If a would-be lipo user scores 80% or better, the owner could then also check out the person's gear and watch him/her cycle a lipo a couple of times under normal race conditions in order to make sure all safety precautions are observed. That way, track owners could separate "those guys" from responsible lipo users who won't be a liability to the track.

Thoughts? If any track owners are interested, I'm sure we could all come up with a good 20 question test and list the necessary safety precautions on this thread.

P.S. Maybe if track owners did the same thing with NIMH users, I wouldn't have almost been hit by NIMH shrapnel this year.

Last edited by Leodis; 07-23-2007 at 05:25 PM.
Leodis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 10:47 AM   #2
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Denmark
Posts: 355
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via ICQ to Jan Larsen
Default

You wont find a track owner willing to do that and risk his ass and the clubs reputation if the person thats dismissed is a member here or the like.
Jan Larsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 10:55 AM   #3
Tech Adept
 
Sneaky Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 188
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I think a LiPo questionnaire is a great idea!

As the electric director at my club, I insist the use of a Low Voltage Cutoff with a LiPo.
Sneaky Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:05 AM   #4
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 872
Trader Rating: 35 (100%+)
Default

We are required to using a balancing lipo charger, or use a balancer add-on, and a fire-proof lipo sack to charge in, and a lipo cut-off device
__________________
High Desert Raceplace, Grand Jct CO, Sanwa Exzes Plus Stick Radio, Spektrum,Thunderpower 230g, Modified Tri-Nut Novak GTB2, Ballistic 4.5t 550, 5.83lb SCTE Ten, Novak Sentry Brushless Dyno, Crossweight Setup Station, Junsi 20A power supply Icharger 20A Charger,TP610C, 22B, Novak Edge, Novak 13.5, SC10, Havoc Pro SC XDrive, Ballistic 17.5 Matthew Joseph Cordova
mattnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:05 AM   #5
Tech Legend
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: West Fargo, North Dakota
Posts: 29,552
Trader Rating: 240 (100%+)
Default

I think insisting on a low voltage cutoff is a great idea. Kind of like nitro tracks insisting on a throttle return spring.

I still don't understand however why a lipo catching on fire is worse than a nimh exploding, basically turning into a grenade.

If the failure rate is the same between the two types for the worse case scenario, which is worse then?

Just seems to me you get more people hurt by the sharpnel than anything else?
__________________
Member - Red River Radio/Control Car Club
< Tekno EB48SL / SCT410.3 | Tekno EB410 x 2 | Yokomo YZ-2 DTM x 2 | LC Racing EMB-1 Buggies and Truggies >
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:11 AM   #6
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mt. Holly, NC
Posts: 1,181
Default

ROAR allowed Li-pos at the Nats this year with no problem and the RC Pro Series allows them, so what else do they want to hear???? Somebody has alot of nickel cells they need to sell (get rid of) before they allow them!
Craps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:12 AM   #7
Tech Elite
 
Leodis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,058
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattnin View Post
We are required to using a balancing lipo charger, or use a balancer add-on, and a fire-proof lipo sack to charge in, and a lipo cut-off device
Sounds good. While I think most of that stuff is overkill, I'm sure it makes your track owner sleep better at night. Here's a list of safety precautions that should/could be observed at the track:

1) If you want to charge lipos at the track, you must use a balancing lipo charger or use an add-on lipo balancer.

2) Your lipo charger can only be used for charging lipos. (No switching back and forth between lipo and NIMH)

3) You must use a fire-proof lipo sack or some kind of battery bunker (ammo box) while charging.

4) Speedos with lvc's are required.
Leodis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:26 AM   #8
Tech Legend
 
Cain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: West Fargo, North Dakota
Posts: 29,552
Trader Rating: 240 (100%+)
Default

I think those are all great suggestions there. Since lipos seem to be easier to use than nimhs (no battery voodoo), changing over to these rules should be pretty easy.

Main concern I have is actually away from the track with storage. I don't have an area to store them over say concrete since the garage up here can get in the negatives.

I have heard of storing them in a battery bunker, purex dish (whatever is used in the oven) or liposack, and have a bag of sand above it so if it does catch on fire I guess that neutralizes it?
__________________
Member - Red River Radio/Control Car Club
< Tekno EB48SL / SCT410.3 | Tekno EB410 x 2 | Yokomo YZ-2 DTM x 2 | LC Racing EMB-1 Buggies and Truggies >
Cain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:30 AM   #9
Tech Elite
 
Leodis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,058
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

I'll use this post for the 20 question test and add to it until we come up with a good one. Answers to questions will vary, depending on location of the track and owner's opinion(s).

1) What kind of lipos are allowed at the track?
Hard cased lipos that use Kokam or Enerland cells

2) What kind of chargers can be used for lipo?
Only chargers that are recommended by the lipo manufacture and have a "Constant Current/Constant Voltage" charge method for Li-Ion/LiPo batteries.

3) What must be used with the approved charger if it doesn't have a built-in lipo balancer?
Add-on balancer approved by the lipo manufacturer.

4) What's the maximum capacity% that you can charge them at?
100%

5) How many amps can you use to charge them?
1C

6) What is "1C" for a 4800 mah lipo?
4.8 amps

7) Where should you store the lipo battery while charging?
In a Lipo-Sack or a track approved battery bunker like an ammo box

8) Can you charge lipos and NIMH's on the same race day with the same charger?
No.

9) How do you know when your battery should never be used again?
If it puffs up enough to make a noticable gap between the top case and bottom case.

10) How do you properly dispose of a lipo battery?
Put it in a bucket of saltwater for 24 hours and then just throw it in the regular trash.

11) What kind of speedos can you use with lipo batteries?
Only speedos equipped with low voltage cutoff.

OK, I'm off to lunch...

Last edited by Leodis; 07-23-2007 at 02:05 PM.
Leodis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:35 AM   #10
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craps View Post
ROAR allowed Li-pos at the Nats this year with no problem and the RC Pro Series allows them, so what else do they want to hear???? Somebody has alot of nickel cells they need to sell (get rid of) before they allow them!
Would be great news if they were legalize at Roar events , they r not , still .....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 11:47 AM   #11
Tech Master
 
johnnyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,634
Trader Rating: 28 (97%+)
Default

Just shows the old mentality of a lot of tracks. These guys need to look at what is driving the hobby if they want to survive (LiPo and brushless). Time for some forward thinking out there as LiPo and Brushless aren't going to fade away and the tracks who are progressive and pro-active are the ones that will be successful.
__________________
"Almost Live Race Coverage": www.johnnyboy.ca

.:Team Orion : JConcepts : B-Fast RC:.
johnnyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 12:00 PM   #12
Tech Addict
 
scott54's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 693
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

I'm keeping two packs in case I end up running in a stock class but other than that I'm selling all my packs and getting two lipos, one for running 4wd, and one for running mod truck. You guys are making these things out to be like kryptonite or something. They're going to bring people into the hobby, they're going to keep electric racing from going away, and they allow for longer racing!! Just wait until an RTR kit comes with one!!! And true, they're not ROAR legal.... YET!! Everything is "not legal" before it becomes "legal". LEGALIZE~!!!
__________________
TLR Racing - ARCS Speedway - B-Fast Racing - Dialed RC - G-Force
scott54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 01:21 PM   #13
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mt. Holly, NC
Posts: 1,181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Would be great news if they were legalize at Roar events , they r not , still .....
Sorry, but I just raced at the 2007 ROAR Electric Off-Road Nats with my 8000 mah MaxAmps li-po with Cavalieiri, Maifield and Truhe in the class using them too and will be racing at the 2007 ROAR Gas Truck Nats with perfectly legal li-po reciever and transmitter packs.

Li-pos are safer than nickel batteries if they are handled and charged per the manufacturers instructions.
Craps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 04:34 PM   #14
Tech Elite
 
trdsupra88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southwest
Posts: 2,531
Trader Rating: 25 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to trdsupra88
Default !!!

I dont want to be "that guy"!!! What causes NiMh batteries to explode and what can I do to avoid it?
trdsupra88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2007, 04:54 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
Leodis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,058
Trader Rating: 16 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trdsupra88 View Post
I dont want to be "that guy"!!! What causes NiMh batteries to explode and what can I do to avoid it?
Sometimes there's nothing to prevent NIMH's from going off like a grenade, but the following list should help you avoid that from happening.

-Always be sure to discharge/equalize your cells before charging.
-If the manufacturer says to charge the battery at 5 amps, charge it at 5 amps.
-Use a temp cut-off if your charger has one.
-Cool the battery while charging with a fan. During the summertime, I put a fan underneath the battery and put another one on the side.
-Don't let the battery scrape up against metal if it's a sideXside race pack.
-Let the battery cool down for a couple hours after using it before you charge it again.
-Don't charge the battery more than 2 - 3 times per day.
-Store the battery with a decent charge in it so none of the cells go bad before the next time you use it.

Now back on topic. Can any of the lipo lovers think of more stuff to put on the questionnaire? I want to reach 20.
Leodis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
REGISTRASI "MERDEKA RACE" 17 AGUSTUS , rcraceway indoor carpet circuit-WTC MG2, JKT mbahdukun Indonesia Racing 40 08-22-2008 12:10 AM
STUFF FOR SALE """"LQQK """" EZRC R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 03-13-2007 07:20 PM
"""NEW""" Collari .21 3 port buggy motor lc21-b3 goneRVing R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 7 12-20-2006 06:25 PM
STUFF FOR SALE """"LQQK """" EZRC R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 10-22-2006 09:49 PM
""" XRAY FK05 """ excellent cond/super clean/stock evostyle R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 9 06-29-2006 10:04 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:26 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net