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Old 07-10-2007, 03:36 PM   #31
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There must be something wrong with the 6000. In my experience the Platinum 4800's can't touch a Maxamps 6000 in run time. And they shoudn't.
Of course there was something wrong with it. It was a piece of crap from what I could see. A 6000 should obviously have more runtime than a 4800, but it didn't.

I think it's pretty clear that you could have a 10,000 mah Lipo and if it's damaged because it doesn't have any more protection than a Zip-Loc bag, then it's not going to work very well or very long. If they want to compete, then they need to step up their game and build their packs to last like Orion does.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:30 PM   #32
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There must be something wrong with the 6000. In my experience the Platinum 4800's can't touch a Maxamps 6000 in run time. And they shoudn't.
Same here I sold my 48's and bought the 6000's
With a 4300 I can run 30 minutes.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:41 PM   #33
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run lipo with only heat shrink at your own risk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OsBc...elated&search=
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:41 PM   #34
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Same here I sold my 48's and bought the 6000's
With a 4300 I can run 30 minutes.
I'm sure you can...just don't dent the putty...
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:45 PM   #35
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Of course there was something wrong with it. It was a piece of crap from what I could see. A 6000 should obviously have more runtime than a 4800, but it didn't.

I think it's pretty clear that you could have a 10,000 mah Lipo and if it's damaged because it doesn't have any more protection than a Zip-Loc bag, then it's not going to work very well or very long. If they want to compete, then they need to step up their game and build their packs to last like Orion does.
Come on turbo. You know a case and a fuse are not all it takes.
It takes care. I ran Orions and loved them. I run Max Amps now and have the same respect for them. In a XXX-T the battery is just as safe as a 4800 on the side of a sedan. The pack is in the middle of the truck and secured by the chassis. And if a person really cared enough they can make shift a lexan shield over that. A sedan they can eject unless care is taken.
Right now I would say the fuse will become mandatory. And the case will be optional. You just cant get the Mah's in that case with out making it to tall. Though I hope they can some day.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:48 PM   #36
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Another thought would be to make it mandatory for safety to only allow case type packs with fuses in doors. That would be a good Idea.
The shrink wraps out doors.

Of coarse it would be good across the board.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:49 PM   #37
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run lipo with only heat shrink at your own risk
Oh please...LOL...do that same stupid stuff to a 4200 and you'd need full-on kevlar body armor. It's not the case that makes the Orions safer, it's the construction of the cell and the fusing. The case just makes it live longer in a hostile environment.
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Old 07-10-2007, 05:55 PM   #38
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I watch these and they never tell you what packs there testing.
Tee's me off. That would be the true test. And then we would know which not to buy.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING View Post
Come on turbo. You know a case and a fuse are not all it takes.
It takes care. I ran Orions and loved them. I run Max Amps now and have the same respect for them. In a XXX-T the battery is just as safe as a 4800 on the side of a sedan. The pack is in the middle of the truck and secured by the chassis. And if a person really cared enough they can make shift a lexan shield over that. A sedan they can eject unless care is taken.
Right now I would say the fuse will become mandatory. And the case will be optional. You just cant get the Mah's in that case with out making it to tall. Though I hope they can some day.
One thing UN - you of all people know it's more than a case and a fuse. It is the quality of the cells as well. Remove the hardcase and wrap an Orion pack and I would still run it in my T4. The only other pack I'd consider at this point is the Trakpower but that isn't even about the case. Enerland cells are up there in quality. Maxamps and others? God only knows the quality. C rating tells you nothing.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:31 PM   #40
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One thing UN - you of all people know it's more than a case and a fuse. It is the quality of the cells as well. Remove the hardcase and wrap an Orion pack and I would still run it in my T4. The only other pack I'd consider at this point is the Trakpower but that isn't even about the case. Enerland cells are up there in quality. Maxamps and others? God only knows the quality. C rating tells you nothing.
I agree 100%. Any one who would dispute that is an idiot and will probably blow a lot of packs..

And it really makes me want to go out and drive a nail through my Max Amp pack and video tape it.
Max Amp wouldn't tell me who makes there cells. They prefer to talk around that Q and say we make them right here.
It would lead you to believe they are either crap or protecting a source or some thing to that degree. But I need the MAH and I'm going to run the crap out of them. It will be interesting to see how they compare to the Orions. I had those for a year and raced once per week and never ran more than 4300's. The max Amps are getting more abuse running mod and off road and running 20 minute mains VS 5 minutes in doors with the Orions. The future will sell or tell HUH.? So far so good.
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:41 PM   #41
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Yeah I know time will tell with all of this. The best thing I saw recently I posted over in the orion 3200 thread I think. A chart that linger had linked to that showed capacity and voltage levels at various points in cycling a Kokam 4800 pack at around 60 amp discharge. From cycle 1 to 205, the pack maintained the same capacity and voltage - flat lines. I don't know what Kokam is doing that's so different but I think I'm going to buy stock now....
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:46 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by kuzo View Post
Yeah I know time will tell with all of this. The best thing I saw recently I posted over in the orion 3200 thread I think. A chart that linger had linked to that showed capacity and voltage levels at various points in cycling a Kokam 4800 pack at around 60 amp discharge. From cycle 1 to 205, the pack maintained the same capacity and voltage - flat lines. I don't know what Kokam is doing that's so different but I think I'm going to buy stock now....
Amen.
Now thats a good Idea.
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Old 07-11-2007, 04:35 AM   #43
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For people wanting to run the Orions and have run time, I think running two of the 3200 packs in parallel would would be smaller and lighter package. Anyone tried this?

I've run Thunder Power TP8000 2s packs for a while now in Off-Road. You can run two associated foam pads in the front and two in the rear in a T4 and a single pad in front and rear on a B4. A battery strap on top and even foam pads under that if you want but I don't. They are wired with the wires coming out the top-front too so they work perfect. I've never had a problem with them getting banged up. The first pack I bought USED 2 1/2 years ago still runs fine. They are great cells and I recommend them. The two Maxamp packs I have have been great too. I just don't think they are quite the quality of the Thunder Power. I'm not going to argue about the hard cases I just don't personally need them. Other types of vehicles and racing styles might need them more. The fuses and such sound good to me though.
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Old 07-17-2007, 01:53 PM   #44
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i see new product in lipo for car

very popular in europe in airplane

vislero 5000mah 20C 7.4V 22X44X135mm
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:50 PM   #45
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I've graphed the voltage under load for my Orion 4800 and Maxamps 6000. I learned two things.

First, while they both start at about the same voltage, the maxamps keeps the voltage higher throughout the discharge. The difference is about .2 volts 1200 mah into the discharge which is arguably significant.

The second thing I learned was that the Maxamps gave far higher capacity than advertised and the opposite was true of the Orion. The Maxamps made it to 6400 mah before dropping below 6.6 volts whereas the Orion lasted 4150 mah before going below 6.6 volts.

Now, my discharge was only 10 amps which you guys will probably all laugh at but that's because I run stock and 19T electric and 10A is a good point between what stock and 19T average. I don't have a means to try more than 10A discharge anyway.

I'd be happy to post the graph if anyone cares to see it and if I can figure out how to export excel charts to JPGs.

I've tried to let these type of data guide my decisions rather than Orions more respectable name, questionable origin of the Maxamps cells, etc.

Having said that, I've had two problems with Maxamps lipos and none with Orion so far. One Maxamps 6000 was left unplugged (I *think* but I'm only about 50% sure) and when I went to use it several weeks later the voltage was down at 4V and I failed to resucitate it. Maxamps sold me a replacement at a discount.

The other problem I had was during an endurance race this past weekend. The Maxamps 6000 lasted somewhere between 30 minutes and 45 minutes per charge in a 1/10th touring car endurance race. We had a Maxamps 6000 and three Orion 4800's that we were rotating in the car during pit stops. Anyway, it was really hot here that day (about 105) and the Maxamps pack had swelled up significantly when we took it out of the car. The Orions did no such thing though there is some breathing room inside their hard cases and if the cells swelled I wouldn't know it. I haven't yet had a chance to cycle the maxamps and see if it's still OK.

So it's possible both of these issues were my fault (I may have left the one plugged into the ESC and running the other for 45 minutes in 105 degree temps may be "bad"). But I sure prefer the performance of the maxamps pack.

Last edited by Arboleda; 07-17-2007 at 03:04 PM.
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