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Old 08-26-2007, 10:47 AM   #16
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I'm surprised a seemingly successful company with a pretty good product would do something like this.

I guess some people are really clueless about the do's and don'ts of marketing. Plus, don't seem to have the common sense to anticipate this negative outcome.
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Old 08-26-2007, 10:50 AM   #17
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Say badassrevo,
Would you have pictures on how you strap the 5500mah saddlepacks to your TRF501x?
Thanks.
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Old 08-26-2007, 11:49 AM   #18
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I'm surprised a seemingly successful company with a pretty good product would do something like this.

I guess some people are really clueless about the do's and don'ts of marketing. Plus, don't seem to have the common sense to anticipate this negative outcome.
This is the same company that sends Christian themed thank you cards to its customers. Does that mean Jesus endorses Maxamps? Sure, there are lots of christians in the U.S., but I'm sure those thank you cards piss off lots of non-christian customers. Just another stupid marketing ploy from a company who is now using lies and misinformation to sell their products. I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I own a Maxamps 8000...
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Old 08-26-2007, 03:01 PM   #19
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I stick with the Orion/Peak packs, I have seen maxamps used in my area for a while, I have nothing negitive to say about them, sooo there you go.......now how about a Peak/Orion shirt
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Old 08-26-2007, 07:24 PM   #20
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Now I'm really confused.

What's the difference between giving some product a positive plug for a free shirt, or giving some product a positive plug for a 50% off retail deal?

The only difference I can see so far is the regular guys who do the t shirt thing are viewed as self serving scum who would sell their mother for a $10.00 shirt, while the folks getting 50% (and better) deals to do the same thing are (for the most part) seen as reliable sources of unbiased info on the product they are shilling for.

For a hobby/sport where the number one question from the majority of participants year after year is "How do I get sponsored?", The negative response to this (admittedly) fumble fingered marketing attempt by maxamps is IMHO the epitome of irony.

It's just another form of advertising, so how is giving away a few t shirts in exchange for product promotion any different than giving away reduced price (or free) product for the same kind of promotion? Both examples are going to contain nothing but glowing rhetoric about the product in question, so what makes one form not only acceptable, but believable enough to influence purchasing decisions, while the other is viewed with such naked distain?
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:52 AM   #21
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I use both the MaxAmp's Lipo 6000HV 2S2P packs and the Hyperion LBA10 Balancer...great products! The packs run strong throughout the entire charge and with the balancer I get the most out of them which will only extend the life of the packs. I have no problem leaving positive feedback when the company deserves it!
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:44 AM   #22
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Now I'm really confused.

What's the difference between giving some product a positive plug for a free shirt, or giving some product a positive plug for a 50% off retail deal?

The only difference I can see so far is the regular guys who do the t shirt thing are viewed as self serving scum who would sell their mother for a $10.00 shirt, while the folks getting 50% (and better) deals to do the same thing are (for the most part) seen as reliable sources of unbiased info on the product they are shilling for.

For a hobby/sport where the number one question from the majority of participants year after year is "How do I get sponsored?", The negative response to this (admittedly) fumble fingered marketing attempt by maxamps is IMHO the epitome of irony.

It's just another form of advertising, so how is giving away a few t shirts in exchange for product promotion any different than giving away reduced price (or free) product for the same kind of promotion? Both examples are going to contain nothing but glowing rhetoric about the product in question, so what makes one form not only acceptable, but believable enough to influence purchasing decisions, while the other is viewed with such naked distain?
If you ask me, they are trying to get around posting rules which do not allow advertising. There is a whole other forum dedicated to advertisers. They are asking someone to post a review/recommendation for their product and essentially paying them behind the scenes. The first post did not say they were being paid for their opinion but it was pretty obvious to anyone who has visited maxamps website. Secondly, the post was a little over the top and you had to be a little suspicious.

Wouldn't you like to know if someone was being paid to endorse a product before you used their information to make a purchase decision? That's why TV commercials *have* to say if a testimonial is being given by a paid actor. It's borderline if not fraudulent if they don't.

I would prefer to get my reviews from the most unbiased opinion possible. Now, I know it's not entirely possible to think every one's opinion here is unbiased, but I would at least like to know if they are paid to say something is good. Maxamps techniques are shady and employing them on a forum like this were *most* of us are here to share and discuss honest opinions on the topic of RC is sad.

Lastly, at least with guys that are sponsored, most of us know that information. They have the decency to put it in their signature. Posting without specifying any relationship to a company is the problem. My point in an earlier post was to shame someone for doing such a thing. We should all be better RCtech'ers and avoid such temptation. This is a community to help us, so we can cooperate and become better RC hobbyists. Let's try to limit the advertising to where it should be, magazines and adv. forums, so we can get the most unbiased information possible.

Just my .02

Last edited by foolio; 08-27-2007 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:27 AM   #23
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Get around advertising? They do advertise on here and rcuniverse, the biggest forums out there. Orion/peak wont even give you a decal for mentioning there products, I really dont have any issues with this, plain and simple its business. I am a contactor and give people business cars, small magnetic cards, pens, with my company logo and ask them to tell a neighbor, or relative about me if they liked my work, and need the service I provide at a later time, is there something wrong with that? Its been called a shamless plug, networking, advertising, whatever the term, its just business. I actually applaud the shirt idea, cause I know giving free shirts ins't cheap by any means, just the cost alone of a few 100 shirts plus shipping to each person costs money, But as with all forms of business you must spend money to make money. What better way to get the word out then through its customers, and to be honest I do have 3 orion packs, and purchased 2 maxamps packs just from reading other peoples experiances. So far they have been just as good as my high $$ orion's. Hopefully maxamps has some "hard cases" in the works to enclose the cells since I have a feeling ROAR is going to require this when rules are finally written.
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:32 AM   #24
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Ok. I guess if we wanna get technical, we could say, they didnt ask for a positive review. Heck maybe they were so confident on their product they were actually asking for an honest review.

Ok. i was wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fhm555 View Post
Now I'm really confused.

What's the difference between giving some product a positive plug for a free shirt, or giving some product a positive plug for a 50% off retail deal?

The only difference I can see so far is the regular guys who do the t shirt thing are viewed as self serving scum who would sell their mother for a $10.00 shirt, while the folks getting 50% (and better) deals to do the same thing are (for the most part) seen as reliable sources of unbiased info on the product they are shilling for.

For a hobby/sport where the number one question from the majority of participants year after year is "How do I get sponsored?", The negative response to this (admittedly) fumble fingered marketing attempt by maxamps is IMHO the epitome of irony.

It's just another form of advertising, so how is giving away a few t shirts in exchange for product promotion any different than giving away reduced price (or free) product for the same kind of promotion? Both examples are going to contain nothing but glowing rhetoric about the product in question, so what makes one form not only acceptable, but believable enough to influence purchasing decisions, while the other is viewed with such naked distain?
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Old 08-27-2007, 09:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by fhm555 View Post
Now I'm really confused.

What's the difference between giving some product a positive plug for a free shirt, or giving some product a positive plug for a 50% off retail deal?
It's not that confusing. If a sponsored guy did the same thing, he would get slammed the same way. It happens here all the time. It isn't different.

The thing that makes this look so tawdry is that it's so blatant and that he apparently did it for a t-shirt...LOL
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:00 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by hobbipro View Post
Get around advertising? They do advertise on here and rcuniverse, the biggest forums out there. Orion/peak wont even give you a decal for mentioning there products, I really dont have any issues with this, plain and simple its business. I am a contactor and give people business cars, small magnetic cards, pens, with my company logo and ask them to tell a neighbor, or relative about me if they liked my work, and need the service I provide at a later time, is there something wrong with that? Its been called a shamless plug, networking, advertising, whatever the term, its just business. I actually applaud the shirt idea, cause I know giving free shirts ins't cheap by any means, just the cost alone of a few 100 shirts plus shipping to each person costs money, But as with all forms of business you must spend money to make money. What better way to get the word out then through its customers, and to be honest I do have 3 orion packs, and purchased 2 maxamps packs just from reading other peoples experiances. So far they have been just as good as my high $$ orion's. Hopefully maxamps has some "hard cases" in the works to enclose the cells since I have a feeling ROAR is going to require this when rules are finally written.
Okay, we'll agree to disagree. I DO understand what you are saying about your marketing material. That's different to me. However, on an Internet forum, in the "normal topic" threads, you aren't supposed to advertise in a post. There are advertisers forums as well as top and side banner's for that. My comment to "getting around" that rule is referring to rewarding posters to write posts that glorify their product but fail to mention they are being compensated to do so.

And to the following post, no, they did not say to write a positive post but my guess is that it is implied and if you didn't, you probably weren't going to be rewarded. Their is no legal binding contract for them to do so either way.
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:01 AM   #27
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Okay, we'll agree to disagree. I DO understand what you are saying about your marketing material. That's different to me. However, on an Internet forum, in the "normal topic" threads, you aren't supposed to advertise in a post. There are advertisers forums as well as top and side banner's for that. My comment to "getting around" that rule is referring to rewarding posters to write posts that glorify their product but fail to mention they are being compensated to do so.

And to the following post, no, they did not say to write a positive post but my guess is that it is implied and if you didn't, you probably weren't going to be rewarded. Their is no legal binding contract for them to do so either way.
I am going to rest my case now...

Cheers!
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Old 08-27-2007, 10:11 AM   #28
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It's not that confusing. If a sponsored guy did the same thing, he would get slammed the same way. It happens here all the time. It isn't different.

The thing that makes this look so tawdry is that it's so blatant and that he apparently did it for a t-shirt...LOL
taw·dry (tôdr)
adj. taw·dri·er, taw·dri·est
1. Gaudy and cheap in nature or appearance. See Synonyms at gaudy1.
2. Shameful or indecent: tawdry secrets.
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:07 PM   #29
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Thanks for all the responses to my questions, they have been very educational.

I don't get to spend much time on forums so I was not aware of any ban on advertising here.

That said, would you not consider a sponsored driver having their sig loaded with a list of companies giving them something in exchange for pushing their product a form of advertising? Certainly more low profile than offering a free shirt for a glowing review, but advertising nonetheless. Advertising is all about name recognition so the more times you get your company name in front of your target audience the better chance you have of influencing potential buyers. What's even worse (IMHO) is when privateers emulate sponsored drivers by also loading their sigs with a list of products they pay full weight for out of their own pocket. This is nothing more than free advertising for the companies being displayed, but I've never seen a single negative comment about it. I understand it is also about pride of ownership and a sort of self validation regards individual purchasing decisions, but no matter the motivation it still ups the name recognition for the makers whose names are displayed, which makes it advertising no matter how you frame it.

Advertising is all about perception, and just as in organized religion where a small group of people with a certain slant on faith would be considered a cult, that same slant becomes an established, respected religion if enough people get on board because the perception is if so many people like it there must be something good about it. The exact same principle applies to advertising, a million people can't be wrong, so it must be worth checking out.

That's why I never list the stuff I use in my sig, because I refuse to give anyone free advertising even if I think they have the greatest thing since sliced bread. If a topic appears asking about something I use and I have something constructive to add to the conversation I will do so. It may not be a glowing review, but it will be an honest opinion based on personal experience with the product in question.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way trying to defend maxamps or the guy who started this thread, I'm just wondering why folks who would love to get a free ride would be so quick to offer harsh judgment of someone else trying to get the same thing.

I am not naive enough to be unaware of the fact there is a right way to go about such things, but if the end result is the same and the method used is no different than the established norm for our industry, what's the big deal? I know someone is FOS when they present such an over the top review so I take it with a grain of salt, just like I do any other form of advertising. I will also give him the benefit of the doubt that he may not be as educated in the finer workings of our strange little r/c world. I've been doing this crap for a long time and have put my foot in my mouth so many times it's pathetic, but I never set out to intentionally deceive or mislead anyone, and I would like to think maybe the folks at maxamps are in that same boat.

Rather than take the position they set out to deceive us in an attempt to pawn off an inferior product on an unassuming public, I prefer to see it as a well intentioned, but ill conceived attempt to get more name recognition.

They made a poor decision no doubt, but is that reason enough to characterize them as some opportunistic robber baron who's only intent was to rip us off?
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Old 08-27-2007, 12:31 PM   #30
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That said, would you not consider a sponsored driver having their sig loaded with a list of companies giving them something in exchange for pushing their product a form of advertising? Certainly more low profile than offering a free shirt for a glowing review, but advertising nonetheless.
Yes, I would consider it a form of advertising and a way of patronizing racers into buying specific products. How many sponsored drivers buy their motors, batteries, etc... at the lhs? Next to none. How many sponsored drivers actually deserve to be sponsored? If you've never even won a competitive club race, you don't deserve to be sponsored. But at least sponsored drivers are up front about their bias. I take most sponsored drivers' opinions with a grain of salt. There are only a handful who are straight shooters here on rctech.

Quote:
What's even worse (IMHO) is when privateers emulate sponsored drivers by also loading their sigs with a list of products they pay full weight for out of their own pocket. This is nothing more than free advertising for the companies being displayed, but I've never seen a single negative comment about it. I understand it is also about pride of ownership and a sort of self validation regards individual purchasing decisions, but no matter the motivation it still ups the name recognition for the makers whose names are displayed, which makes it advertising no matter how you frame it.
B.S.. I come to rctech to get opinions from guys who pay their own way. If they want to put the gear they use in their sig to let people know what they think about those products, I appreciate that kind of feedback.

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That's why I never list the stuff I use in my sig, because I refuse to give anyone free advertising even if I think they have the greatest thing since sliced bread. If a topic appears asking about something I use and I have something constructive to add to the conversation I will do so. It may not be a glowing review, but it will be an honest opinion based on personal experience with the product in question.
That is also my opinion, but to each his own...

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Please don't get me wrong, I'm in no way trying to defend maxamps or the guy who started this thread, I'm just wondering why folks who would love to get a free ride would be so quick to offer harsh judgment of someone else trying to get the same thing.
I bet dollars to donuts that there are far fewer people "who would love to get a free ride" than you think. Maybe we should start a poll/thread about this. I'd much rather pay full retail than limit the products I can use. Granted, there's a big difference between factory drivers and sponsored drivers. Most people would give their left nut to be a top tier factory driver.

Quote:
Rather than take the position they set out to deceive us in an attempt to pawn off an inferior product on an unassuming public, I prefer to see it as a well intentioned, but ill conceived attempt to get more name recognition.

They made a poor decision no doubt, but is that reason enough to characterize them as some opportunistic robber baron who's only intent was to rip us off?
Do you work for Maxamps? Have you seen the stuff they recently put in the "About Us" section of their website? It's chocked full with half-truths, misinformation, and downright lies. I'll never buy another battery from them again.
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