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Old 06-12-2007, 11:53 AM   #16
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Butters, have you ever tried silver springs on the rear on a track with 1/8 and truggies? If you did and it worked I'd like to see the setup. We run the rear end really soft on the tracks here because we have so many big vehicles they rut thr track, and with silver springs the azz end bounces like a pogo stick.

Cain, look in the B4/T4 thread, someone posted a pic of the weighted setup and where to put the weights under the tranny brace. It's a pic Coach posted about 6 months ago and yes, it applies to the T4 also.
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:21 AM   #17
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yes i have. If you run 0 deg. of anti squat like i do. Dirtcountry. 1/8th scale heaven. Why do people assume softer is better? Car reacts like an 80 year old woman. slow and rolls to no end.

My setup for outdoor at this type of track
Front:
shocks- 2-O, 32 1/2 oil, 1 pistons, 0 limiter. ( unscrew shock 2 full turns)
camber links- 2B, 1 washer, -1 deg camber
1 bump spacer, axle middle, 25 deg caster
arms slightly above level

Rear:
shocks- 1-I, 27 1/2 oil, 2 pistons, 1 limiter (.040)
camber links- 2B, 3 washers ( 1 with new brace), -1.5 deg camber
0 deg anti squat, wheelbase short ( Moved arm .030 forward also)
bones slightly above level

Tires- Red big shot stock insert and losi 7204 silver 3/4 rear insert.

* All plastic car, 1- 3/4 oz in rear, j-concepts 6 inch wing no wicker on most days because the size of the jumps.

I ran that setup with no problems of laying down fast laps, tq's, and wins. Change to suit driving style but its a good starting point. The silvers work well with 0 deg anti squat. the car handles the jumps well and still gets good forward bite. I like to drive the car hard, Im not a fan of a car rolling and dumping in the corners. Also play with RIDE HEIGHT, it has a huge effect on how a car goes thru the bumps and ruts.
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Old 06-13-2007, 08:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Butters37 View Post
yes i have. If you run 0 deg. of anti squat like i do. Dirtcountry. 1/8th scale heaven. Why do people assume softer is better? Car reacts like an 80 year old woman. slow and rolls to no end.
The more pertinent question is, why do some people get their frilly panties in a wad if they think you're questioning their setup? Chill, it was a question. Everyone that was running here (including one AE driver) all ended up running green springs. So, I just wanted to see what you had and see if it would work here.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:47 AM   #19
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I just dont want someone getting the wrong ifo. Going softer is not the way to do it. Its usually a band-aid for a lazy driver or a bad setup. The way these cars you should be able to work with them not just give up
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Butters37 View Post
I just dont want someone getting the wrong ifo. Going softer is not the way to do it. Its usually a band-aid for a lazy driver or a bad setup. The way these cars you should be able to work with them not just give up
Wow. You should check some of the AE setup sheets. Just briefly, Perez 2005 Stock Nats and Cragg's 2004 Euro Champs. Both with green springs in the rear. TQ and 1st for Cragg, 1st for Wookie. And with a "wrong" setup. Just think what they could have done if they'd taken your advice! Bet they were glad their "band aid" for their bad setups and laziness as drivers paid off teh way it did. Point being, there's no "right" or "wrong" setup. Setup is a fluid thing and can change at the same track from weekend to weekend. The only thing wrong is to tell somone green springs won't work. Unless you want to argue with a guy who's won a US National championship (Perez) and a guy who's won a Euro Nats and a Worlds title (Cragg) with the B4. Me, I'm open minded enough to think that both silver AND green springs might work depending on track conditions. That's why I asked, and it's why I have both in my pit box.

As an added note, think about what you're doing with 0 deg antisquat and stiffer springs. Does it take more energy to compress a silver or green to the same point (let's say where it would be with 2 deg squat)? Now, if the spring can travel even further, does it build up even more energy or have less? If it has more energy, can you tell me what happens when that energy is released?
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Old 06-13-2007, 01:36 PM   #21
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By soft i meant 1 pistons with 20wt oil. I use green springs alot. But what you have to take into consideration is the pack that the shocks have and the anti squat. At a local track that opened in the past few years I met people and I learned what people tend to think with the B4. I like you do not want to guide others in the wrong direction. Most people just dont know there driving style or how to drive enough to setup a car. That is why they ask for help as I did when I was new. Dont compare the wookie with neil. The wookie's setups are so random and he is no where near the driver. They work for wookie and its hard for other grivers to drive his stuff. What Im saying is that when you run green springs on a bumpy outdoor track with all the wieght in the rear you have to see that it will compress rapidly and has a tendacy to bottom out over lareg jumps. That is why for this certain stle of track i prefer to run silvers.
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Old 06-13-2007, 03:11 PM   #22
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Butters, I know you know what you're doing and that's why I asked about how you were able to use silvers. But everyone is not going to take the time to learn about roll centers, and roll moments, and pack, and lamiinar and turbulent flow, etc. IMO there's still no "wrong" setup. If you want one that lets the chassis roll and doesn't pack at all, run No. 1's and 20 wt in the rear. Might work for some people. Just be sure you backside everything, LOL. It's bad enough with 25 or 30 wt, which is why I would like to be able to make silvers work. I could use the margin for error, ha ha ha. I agree, the B4 and T4 are funny animals (hence the brown springs). A XXX will almost never feel bad, but you can make a B4 feel like straight up bootie. But when you get it right, it's sooooo good, it's such a responsive car. BTW, I can't stand the battery in the back, I can't hang onto the thing at all with too much weight rearward. I actually split my foam and run one one either end of the battery, makes it a little more neutral IMO. And I'm with you on Wookie. I've tried some of his setups under what I thought were similar conditions and I almost couldn't drive it in a straight line. We obviously have vastly different styles. It works for him though, you can't argue with his results.
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJa View Post
I am looking for a good setup, or place to start with my B4... I have not been able to find anything I like.... The track is big (1/8 scale gas and Truggy) it is hard packed with loose stuff on top... traction is low, gets water but it is gone before it gets put down (heat and wind). The main problem is rear traction. The front turns good, but the rear just wants to come around with it.

Anyone have a good setup sheet they can post ?


Thanks for any and all help
Remember something is available on Oople website...

This page shows tons of B4 setups

Hope that help!
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