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Old 04-16-2007, 03:05 PM   #1
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Default 2wd Front End Design. A few questions.

I am curious to why companies do not use a design similar to Schumachers Active Caster System.

Even to this day I do not think I have owned a 2wd car that would steer better than my old Double X with Schumachers Front end conversion. Add the engineering that Losi has done and it makes for a very fast 2wd buggy.

What is the difference? Well the way it works is, the front tires basically stay upright at a constant level. Even through a turn while the suspension is compressed the front tires have full contact with the surface. On most buggies the tires will usually lean away when coming into a turn and full tire contact is limited. So in other words the front tires will stay flat with the active caster system and you will have full contact patch no matter what. So that means more tractions and a great steering car. With that front end on a much better designed car it worked awesome. That is why I am soo curious to why something like this is not more likely used.

I do not think any buggy to this day uses anything similar to that front end design, and I am curious to why not.
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Old 04-16-2007, 04:52 PM   #2
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I heard a lot of good things about that active front end from Schumacher but I also heard it was not that durable.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:07 PM   #3
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Wow, I had forgotten all about that! I used to run that on my Schumacher's, but I don't remember why we quit using it.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:10 PM   #4
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Before I got out of RC I was running the active caster system, and I drove it for a long period of time. The only thing I broke was 1 front A-arm.

I am in the middle of getting a Double-X with the the SACS front end, and another brand new conversion for spare parts.

Even with my B4, I still plan on running my old Double-X with the SACS front end. The car will out turn any 2wd buggy in the market today. As for durability, I can see a few places where it could be a weak spot, but I just do not see how they could not improve on it, and make it beefier.

That is why I am soo curious to why no one has even attempted or to even try out the concept on all these newer vehichles. Throughout the years I have not been racing, I still see companies taking eachother ideas and bla bla. Schumachers Active Caster System is pretty genius, and I wish I could modify my B4 or even newer Losi to run with this front end. That would just make for an ourstanding car.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:18 PM   #5
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Well I am glad I am not the only one that has not forgotten. Honestly, I feel that the Associated and Losi cars are much better than any of Schumachers 2wd buggies, maybe even there entire line. Both Losi and Associated know how to design a car, but I will give Schumacher credit to making a front end that works better than anything I have ever tried. The concept is great, but the rest of the car is not. Like I said, my Losi Double X and all the newer buggies are just great handling cars, and with that front end it makes the car even better.

If I could only combine the new technology and handling of these newer cars with the Schumacher Active Caster System, I would be one happy guy. But I still think I my old Double-X can still be competitive, especially with that front end. It just makes the car a totally different beast. It is true that the newer B4, as well as the latest XXX is a much better car when it comes to overall handling, but I still feel it lacks a lot of steering compared to a car with the active caster system.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:34 PM   #6
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See if you can post pictures of the system. I remember seeing ads for it but never one in person. You may be able to install one on a current car. Get a Dremel and a set of micrometers. That is what is so great about this sport as opposed to full size racing. You can redesign a race car in your living room in an evening.
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Old 04-16-2007, 05:40 PM   #7
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I bet I can get it to work on a XXX, but I don't think I can run the conversion on a B4.

I am running a B4 right now, it would be awesome if I had a active caster system for it. I bet I can have some billet A-arms and do something custom, but I am not really much of a designer. I know how the concept works, and I know for a fact it works. But getting it to work properly on a B4 may be out of my league.
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Old 04-16-2007, 07:30 PM   #8
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If I remember correctly they made one of these suspension systems for the B2/B3 as well. If you could find one that may be more compatible/closer match for a B4. Seems like the problem would be the Wheelbase and width if you got the system to fit and work. The steering angles would probably be a little odd as well. Robinson Racing also made a steering knuckle/castor block that had some unique features as well, this was years ago. It wasn't the same as the Schumacher system, can't remember exaclty what the difference was between stock systems and it but it reacted differently when the suspension was compressed. I think the axle was angled at 18 Degrees in relation to the knuckle, can't remember what the effect was.
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Old 04-17-2007, 07:44 AM   #9
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Well I doubt I can find one for a Associated LOL. I can try.

I am not sure if they did release it for the B2/B3. I will have to check that out and do some more research.

I am going to try to modify the stock b4 arms to accept the losi arms. Just cut the arm straight before the hub carriers and I will epoxy the losi arms to give me the right angle and length. I want to keep the front width exactly the same.

It won't be super sturdy, but if I can get it to work I can atleast take the car for a few laps and see how it does. If all works well then I will have some aluminum pieces made up and race from there.
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Old 04-17-2007, 12:55 PM   #10
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I would not use aluminum. Unless you have a good supply of suspension mounts and chassis. Not to mention your hard to find caster blocks and steering knuckles. If you have someone that can make aluminum arms, they should just as easily be able to make you some delrin arms. This material is great for custom and prototype parts.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:07 PM   #11
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Ahh I see, I have never heard of Delrin before. I am sure I will have to bring it up to whoever I can find to make me the parts.

First things first, I gotta see if this is even possible with the B4. If not, I will just continue to race the Double X if it is going to get me around the track faster. I just really believe that if I can get this type of front end to work on the b4, the b4 would just be even better than what it is. I mean any off-road car like the XXX I think would benefit.
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Old 04-17-2007, 01:22 PM   #12
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the schumacher suspension was made for the old RC10 car and the XX. they never made a new one for the B3.

i remember the suspension very well.. i drove a cougar 2000/95 Team at that time, quite nice car, but way to hard to setup!
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:29 PM   #13
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That's the thing, the Schumacher cars were a pain to setup, but the concept is sound and does work. That is why I find it hard to believe that after all this time I have been out of this hobby no other company has tried it. On the XX it works awesome, and the car is already a good basis. Just add the ease of tuning, handling, and give it plenty of steering you have a kick ass car. Like I said, even the newer cars have not really impressed me, they are a improvement, but I still don't think they steer as much as my XX does. The car is just that much better and easier to drive. I just wish I could transplant the idea to my B4.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:37 PM   #14
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It's hard for me to understand why you would need a car that steers more than a B4.
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Old 04-17-2007, 02:49 PM   #15
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Because I do not think the B4 or the new XXX steer all that great. Even with the best setup you kind of have to compromise when it comes to where you want most of your steering to be. A lot can be had by driving style as well. But the fact is, the car is just that much easier to drive with the active caster system and setup when you have the front tires with full contact on the ground.

The car is that much easier to drive, you can go into a turn without having to slide the rear around much. It comes in and out of a turn smooth like a on-road car, and there is plenty of steering both low and high speed. With this improvement and the better traction you get up front, it is much easier to set the car up when most of the time rear tire selection is all there is too it. Have you ever taken your car and made the chassis lean in the direction the tires are turning? If you have done that, you will notice that the tire is at a severe angle causing the car to really have no much traction and much of a contact patch. More tire to the ground, the better traction. Traction and more cosistant steering equals a much easier to drive car, and a faster car at that. It sucks that I had to quit when I had to, but again, I am surprised that after 7 years things have not really changed much at all.

I bet the reason that the front end was not tried much at all is because of the fact that Schumacher just does not have the repuation that Losi and Associated have. But I would have thought they would have given the concept a try because from my experience I did not really find any flaws in the system, other than the fact it had a few weaks spots due to the design.
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