387LikesJConcepts Thread
06-16-2009, 08:59 PM
#2911
Our track apparently has a similar surface to hot rod, and we have a similar blazing sun to Cali, and I found the whites felt a little more locked in when it was 100F and the track was hot from the sun.
Ray
06-16-2009, 09:31 PM
#2912
The orange seems to be the best all round tyre for these conditions on the rear, but it might be worth trying a set of whites in the middle of the day when it is really hot. The oranges seemed to work well at Cactus this year, and I heard it was pretty warm there through the day.
Our track apparently has a similar surface to hot rod, and we have a similar blazing sun to Cali, and I found the whites felt a little more locked in when it was 100F and the track was hot from the sun.
Ray
Our track apparently has a similar surface to hot rod, and we have a similar blazing sun to Cali, and I found the whites felt a little more locked in when it was 100F and the track was hot from the sun.
Ray
06-17-2009, 01:21 AM
#2913
Hey guys,
Im no Frank Root, but I do a fair bit of tyre testing down here in Australia for JConcepts. We had a really hot summer, and recently had a big race just as the weather was cooling off, and I have found the following:
When the track is really grippy and abrasive, the orange works better than the blue above 20C (70F). The blues tend to fold over in these conditions and wear quickly.
I did a test on a 38C (100F) day on a very grippy track and the whites were better than orange in these conditions. The softer tyres overheated after only a couple of laps!
In moderate conditions (25c /75F) the oranges tend to work well from lap 1 whereas the whites take a couple of laps to come in. they tend to wear very well.
I found the blues were really good on a grooved red clay track when it was cooler (15C / 60F). It is worth trying firmer inserts in them as the soft compound means that the carcass move more.
As for compound choice:
- if the compound is too soft, the tyre will feel to go off after a couple of laps when it overheats. It can also feel 'snappy' as if the grip comes and then suddenly goes as the pins fold under.
- if the compound is too firm, the tyre will feel like it is skating on the surface. It may also take a few laps to work as it comes up to temp.
Like Frank said, the difference is subtle, and the best bet is to experiment with a few different compounds back to back to get a feel for it.
L8r
Ray
Im no Frank Root, but I do a fair bit of tyre testing down here in Australia for JConcepts. We had a really hot summer, and recently had a big race just as the weather was cooling off, and I have found the following:
When the track is really grippy and abrasive, the orange works better than the blue above 20C (70F). The blues tend to fold over in these conditions and wear quickly.
I did a test on a 38C (100F) day on a very grippy track and the whites were better than orange in these conditions. The softer tyres overheated after only a couple of laps!
In moderate conditions (25c /75F) the oranges tend to work well from lap 1 whereas the whites take a couple of laps to come in. they tend to wear very well.
I found the blues were really good on a grooved red clay track when it was cooler (15C / 60F). It is worth trying firmer inserts in them as the soft compound means that the carcass move more.
As for compound choice:
- if the compound is too soft, the tyre will feel to go off after a couple of laps when it overheats. It can also feel 'snappy' as if the grip comes and then suddenly goes as the pins fold under.
- if the compound is too firm, the tyre will feel like it is skating on the surface. It may also take a few laps to work as it comes up to temp.
Like Frank said, the difference is subtle, and the best bet is to experiment with a few different compounds back to back to get a feel for it.
L8r
Ray
Have you compared Bar Codes with Losi BK Bar Red? I am curious if BK Bar Red is as temperature sensitive as Bar Codes, because I believe everyone just ran BK Bar Red at the rear end all day at previous Hot Rod Shootouts.
Last edited by billythekid; 06-17-2009 at 01:45 AM.
06-17-2009, 04:17 AM
#2914
Hi Ray, thanks for sharing. I would assume your tests above were on JC Bar Codes, am I correct?
Have you compared Bar Codes with Losi BK Bar Red? I am curious if BK Bar Red is as temperature sensitive as Bar Codes, because I believe everyone just ran BK Bar Red at the rear end all day at previous Hot Rod Shootouts.
Have you compared Bar Codes with Losi BK Bar Red? I am curious if BK Bar Red is as temperature sensitive as Bar Codes, because I believe everyone just ran BK Bar Red at the rear end all day at previous Hot Rod Shootouts.
Hi mate,
all testing was on Bar Codes, correct.
I was comparing directly with the BK Bars (reds). I would say that the JC Orange is most comparable with the Losi Red compound, with the JC White being a little harder, but not as dramatic a difference in grip as going to say Losi Silver.
The biggest difference I found with the Bar Codes vs the BK Bar at the rear was that the Bar Codes were much smoother in the transition from cornering to acceleration. The forward traction and cornering grip was not that much different to BK bars, but were much easier to drive especially if there are any flowing sections on the track where you need to blend cornering and throttle. My consistency with Bar Codes was much better and I could drive a bit more aggressively. I think that this is due to the 'Y' design.
The 2wd front bar codes grip better than the taper pins and wear much better, as well as working better if there is any dust on the track. Id recommend having a used set of whites for the front if the grip really comes up and there is no dust.
Ray
06-17-2009, 04:40 AM
#2915
Tech Master
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Ray, can you direct me to where I can get bar codes here in Aus or better still, do you know who in Brisbane may have them?
Cheer's
Cheer's
06-17-2009, 04:52 AM
#2916
try www.nbhc.com.au for JC stuff (Sydney). Not sure who stocks them in Brisbane - you would need to ask Ari at HEI (JC Importers into oz).
L8r
Ray
Last edited by ray_munday; 06-17-2009 at 04:56 AM. Reason: missing .au on web link
06-17-2009, 05:29 AM
#2917
Part # - 0082
(Direct fit for Associated SC10)
Click here to order yours today
06-17-2009, 02:04 PM
#2920
I have tried these ball cups, although they do a good job of absorbing impacts, they do get bent very easily. They are much softer than the stock ball cups. I recommend using either the original Associate ones or RPM ones.
06-17-2009, 02:16 PM
#2921
1) Regarding the front bar codes, did you mean running a new set when the track is cooler, and run a used set when the track is hotter?
2) What do you think of these combinations for 2wd at Hot Rod Shootout?
a) Below 70 degree air temp, Used White Bar Code Front + New Blue Bar Code Rear.
b) Between 70 and 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New Orange Bar Code Rear.
c) Above 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New White Bar Code Rear.
* I assume all the temperature you referred to were air temp. If you were referring to track temp, please correct me.
06-17-2009, 02:55 PM
#2922
Hi Ray, thanks again for such detailed explainations.
1) Regarding the front bar codes, did you mean running a new set when the track is cooler, and run a used set when the track is hotter?
2) What do you think of these combinations for 2wd at Hot Rod Shootout?
a) Below 70 degree air temp, Used White Bar Code Front + New Blue Bar Code Rear.
b) Between 70 and 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New Orange Bar Code Rear.
c) Above 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New White Bar Code Rear.
* I assume all the temperature you referred to were air temp. If you were referring to track temp, please correct me.
1) Regarding the front bar codes, did you mean running a new set when the track is cooler, and run a used set when the track is hotter?
2) What do you think of these combinations for 2wd at Hot Rod Shootout?
a) Below 70 degree air temp, Used White Bar Code Front + New Blue Bar Code Rear.
b) Between 70 and 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New Orange Bar Code Rear.
c) Above 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New White Bar Code Rear.
* I assume all the temperature you referred to were air temp. If you were referring to track temp, please correct me.
Thats a good rule of thumb.....but try not to overthink it. Ultimately your car set up, driving style, and what feels good to you should determine your tire choice. If you had only oranges for the rear and whites for the front you would probably be fine. For years the Losi silver taper fronts and red BkBars for the rear were the tire no matter what the temp was at the Shootout. For most people, the subtle differences in the compounds may not be felt....unless your name is Ryan Mayfield or Frank Root
.
06-17-2009, 03:08 PM
#2923
Tech Master
iTrader: (18)
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Location: The Apocalypse suburb of Robina
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Cheer's for the info Ray
06-17-2009, 04:04 PM
#2924
Billy,
As a general rule of thumb, this looks good for the rear tyres.
For the front, I would run used White Bar Codes when it is really hot. When it is cooler (70) you could try blue fronts to match the rears. Sorry if my first explanation wasnt clear. You will find the 2wd front bar codes last much longer than taper pins, and in my experience work best on a really grippy track after about 3 runs.
Im not sure what sort of temp range you will see at the Shootout. As nc-hopsing said, if all you had were orange rears and white fronts you would probably be fine for 90% of the conditions. But as tyres are the single biggest factor in improving lap times, its always good to be prepared. Id suggest you speak to guys like Frank at the race and find out what tyres they will use at which time.
With JC (and PL) now providing tyres for these conditions which have traditionally been dominated by the BK Bars, compound choice will probably be more important as people search for any edge they can get. The red BK Bar was a default control tyre for many years!
L8r
Ray
As a general rule of thumb, this looks good for the rear tyres.
For the front, I would run used White Bar Codes when it is really hot. When it is cooler (70) you could try blue fronts to match the rears. Sorry if my first explanation wasnt clear. You will find the 2wd front bar codes last much longer than taper pins, and in my experience work best on a really grippy track after about 3 runs.
Im not sure what sort of temp range you will see at the Shootout. As nc-hopsing said, if all you had were orange rears and white fronts you would probably be fine for 90% of the conditions. But as tyres are the single biggest factor in improving lap times, its always good to be prepared. Id suggest you speak to guys like Frank at the race and find out what tyres they will use at which time.
With JC (and PL) now providing tyres for these conditions which have traditionally been dominated by the BK Bars, compound choice will probably be more important as people search for any edge they can get. The red BK Bar was a default control tyre for many years!
L8r
Ray
Hi Ray, thanks again for such detailed explainations.
1) Regarding the front bar codes, did you mean running a new set when the track is cooler, and run a used set when the track is hotter?
2) What do you think of these combinations for 2wd at Hot Rod Shootout?
a) Below 70 degree air temp, Used White Bar Code Front + New Blue Bar Code Rear.
b) Between 70 and 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New Orange Bar Code Rear.
c) Above 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New White Bar Code Rear.
* I assume all the temperature you referred to were air temp. If you were referring to track temp, please correct me.
1) Regarding the front bar codes, did you mean running a new set when the track is cooler, and run a used set when the track is hotter?
2) What do you think of these combinations for 2wd at Hot Rod Shootout?
a) Below 70 degree air temp, Used White Bar Code Front + New Blue Bar Code Rear.
b) Between 70 and 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New Orange Bar Code Rear.
c) Above 100 degree air temp, New White Bar Code Front + New White Bar Code Rear.
* I assume all the temperature you referred to were air temp. If you were referring to track temp, please correct me.
06-17-2009, 04:04 PM
#2925
Suspended
AE Is Killer Of All......
Hi mate,
all testing was on Bar Codes, correct.
I was comparing directly with the BK Bars (reds). I would say that the JC Orange is most comparable with the Losi Red compound, with the JC White being a little harder, but not as dramatic a difference in grip as going to say Losi Silver.
The biggest difference I found with the Bar Codes vs the BK Bar at the rear was that the Bar Codes were much smoother in the transition from cornering to acceleration. The forward traction and cornering grip was not that much different to BK bars, but were much easier to drive especially if there are any flowing sections on the track where you need to blend cornering and throttle. My consistency with Bar Codes was much better and I could drive a bit more aggressively. I think that this is due to the 'Y' design.
The 2wd front bar codes grip better than the taper pins and wear much better, as well as working better if there is any dust on the track. Id recommend having a used set of whites for the front if the grip really comes up and there is no dust.
Ray
all testing was on Bar Codes, correct.
I was comparing directly with the BK Bars (reds). I would say that the JC Orange is most comparable with the Losi Red compound, with the JC White being a little harder, but not as dramatic a difference in grip as going to say Losi Silver.
The biggest difference I found with the Bar Codes vs the BK Bar at the rear was that the Bar Codes were much smoother in the transition from cornering to acceleration. The forward traction and cornering grip was not that much different to BK bars, but were much easier to drive especially if there are any flowing sections on the track where you need to blend cornering and throttle. My consistency with Bar Codes was much better and I could drive a bit more aggressively. I think that this is due to the 'Y' design.
The 2wd front bar codes grip better than the taper pins and wear much better, as well as working better if there is any dust on the track. Id recommend having a used set of whites for the front if the grip really comes up and there is no dust.
Ray
