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Old 03-04-2007, 07:23 AM   #1
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Default tranny/diff strength Losi VS. Associated

Several of the local racers have switched from losi to associated in the mod truck class. One of the benefits they claim is that the Associated tranny/Diff holds up better. I look at the exploded views and the diffs look very similar to me. There is no scale so I cant say, "oh this is plainly built heavier".

Do any of you have experiences or thoughts on the t4 vs the mf2 as far as transmission durability and function? I have been racing a mf2 with a CC mamba max 4600 and just rebuilt the tranny. I changed cases, all bearings, balls and gears except the aluminum input gear/shaft, and of course the washers the balls ride against, and it really doesnt feel that smooth.

The other AE benefits are reported to be better handling, traction, and cheaper parts. I would tend to think that it all comes down to setup and that the trucks are pretty similar. What do you guys think? Are there good reasons to switch?
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Old 03-04-2007, 07:48 AM   #2
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the only reason to switch is personal preference, really. I have run mod truck this year with a 12x2 and stock truck and re-lubed my diff once during the 7 races. Its all in how you build the diff and break it in. Not running it loose helps a lot too.

Yes the t4 handles more aggressive than the mf2 and parts might be cheaper by what, 50 cents?

Its all personal preference
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:36 AM   #3
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I have run them both as well, and the AE diff is by far the better choice ! It holds up much better , I was running a 10x2 in mine and it would smoke the diff every other run in the Losi , only time I could get it to last longer was too run it tighter than I would in my AE truck , well this caused handling/traction issues so I gave up on the Losi . Besides the AE truck never once broke a ball stud off on me ,the Losi was forever doing this . But I will say the Losi handled very well ,but the AE was WAY easier to drive FAST .
Now this was only my expierence ,and opinion ! So take as you like but not as the gospel.
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:10 PM   #4
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Easy way to check which is better, just check the nationals and the big electric truck race results and AE dominates!

We also use a T-4 in 20 to 30 minute mains all the time with no problems from the diff. We wear out outdrives before the tranny needs to be rebuilt!

Weather Losi or AE you choose, I highly recommend using the ceramic diff balls and thrust balls that never wear out or need to be replaced and the diff is the smoothest it will ever be!

Good luck!
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Old 03-04-2007, 12:19 PM   #5
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the AE cars come with carbide diff balls for one. as well as the two diff rings are made from a slightly hard metal then what losi uses, so it doesn't wear as fast as a losi. but a properly built losi with Birdman diff lube will last 3 to 4 months with perfect adjustment. but an AE diff will go for nearly a year. if you have a losi by the AE carbide diffs balls use the birdman lube and it will work great. with the birdman lube you have set it a bit tight as that stuff is so slick, so it doesn't slip. but even in my AE cars i rebuild them at least every 4 months or sooner if needed, but i race them twice a week. plus practice.
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:39 PM   #6
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The associated diff (stock configuration) does hold up better than the Losi (MF 2 stock). If you put in CR rings and replace the thrust bearing with a better unit such as the Traxxas TRX1 thrust bearing or one of the other companies selling them there is not any differnance in the durability. Associateds instructions for setting the diff is more straight forward than Losis so this keeps people from setting the diff too loose and melting the gear. The Associated gear box is less likely to break than the Gen 1 or 2 Losi gear box housing. I have stripped the screws out of the bottom of the Losi trannys from hard landings. I have both and don't prefer one over the other. Losis are easier to build and set incorrectly.

Last edited by plumslow; 03-04-2007 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:43 PM   #7
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Blasphemy.

Who wins races at the pro level has very little to do with the car they're using, especially in the last few years where all cars are capable of winning. There are politics behind it all...

A ball differential is a ball differential. There's no reason that an Associated tranny should handle anything that a Losi transmission cannot, if built and adjusted correctly (the diff will loosen up over time, which I believe causes nearly every diff failure NOT caused by improper setup or lack of maintenance).
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:50 PM   #8
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*sigh*

Ryan Cavalieri won lots of races with Losi cars. He is winning lots of races with Associated cars. He has done very well at on-road races. He won nitro off-road races with Kyosho buggies. What does that prove, besides that he's very fast regardless of what he drives?
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Old 03-04-2007, 01:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Waldron
Blasphemy.

There are politics behind it all...
Do tell
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:20 PM   #10
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Funny I havent touched my diff in a few months and I race a few times a week. I had a guy try a CR from a B4, but switched back to his B4 for JBRL today (has more time with a B4) and he said the thing he remembers about his B4 is that he had to wrench on it almost daily.

Regardless, if you put the diffs together correctly and maintain it you wont have issues. The fastest guy at our track hasnt changed his diff in like 4 months and is only now going to change it out (before Cactus). He also says the Losi diffs are better when they get gritty so he is actually going to change it soon so it wears in soon.
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:34 PM   #11
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Good job on clearing all that up Aaron, maybe the young ones learned something today.
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:45 PM   #12
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Yeah, but I think I ruffled some feathers...hehe.
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:48 PM   #13
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Aaron I have to agree with you and find the lastest 1/8th scale buggy flavor of the month with the Losi buggy thinking it is some kind of magic buggy when given the RC8 coming out will dominate the 1/8th scale with they're drivers to make it the new 1/8th scale flavor of the month. I laugh at all those 1/8th scale drivers changing buggy brands all the time chasing some magical.

Didn't mean to change the subject, but I had to add some comedy!

I have not heard anybody else here say they are using the ceramic diff balls yet?
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Old 03-04-2007, 03:13 PM   #14
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The last big 1/8th scale off-road race had what, six manufacturers make the A-main? And that was excluding the current world champion team.

Yes, cars make a difference. But not as much as the drivers themselves.

I'm not sold on ceramic diff balls. Something has to give somewhere; if you use harder diff balls, you're going to put more stress on the rings. You can make the diff smooth with stock parts, I don't think there's any reason for anything else.
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:59 PM   #15
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well, I don't know about the AE truck but on the MF1 you do need to do some upgrades if you plan on handling some serious power.. Trust me I've learned the hard way. ceramic bearings I don't consider a must but they're a good addition to extend time between rebuilds (at least get the carbides). If you run 6 cell or 2s lipo you may be ok for a while (do get the kevlar spurs), but when running 3S get some metal spacers between the slipper plate and the plastic part next to the spring, if you don't do it there's so much heat being generated by the slipper plate that you will eventually melt the plastic spacer that is in contact with it allowing the slipper spring to get loose. I've also read a comment where the plastic spacer that is in the slipper shaft (inside the tranny) can melt too, bonding itself to the bearing and plastic of the tranny case, and ruining it of course (wasn't going to test for this, so I replaced it with a similar sized metal bearing). Other than that and with the XXX-CR upgrades all should be fine.. got them but haven't had a chance to install yet...

This tranny thing is one of the main burdens when running very high power brushless on 1/10 vehicles, specially 4wd.. its just too much stress for the small parts... I need to get some alloy gears for my 4wd
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