Why has the hobby headed in this direction?
02-15-2007, 08:05 AM
#1
Why has the hobby headed in this direction?
Why is it that the more pure classes which actualy teach you to drive are no longer the starting point for off road racers? Why is it that the pricey easy to drive classes have become more popular?
02-15-2007, 08:18 AM
#2
No one wants to take the time, nor challange to learn how to drive. 
Gas Truck is still by far my Favorite gas class.....
Matbe I am just getting old....
Gas Truck is still by far my Favorite gas class.....
Matbe I am just getting old....
02-15-2007, 08:18 AM
#3
You said it your self. "Easy". Nobody wants to run stock because it's anything but "stock". Tuned engines, battery wars, etc. It's much easier to run modified and know you won't get out powered. If Stock brushless and LiPo catch on (not one or the other, but both) then you will see the return of stock racing. Right now, if you have a motor limitation then folks get turned off because they get "out batteried".
02-15-2007, 08:25 AM
#4
Tech Master
Originally Posted by Davidka
You said it your self. "Easy". Nobody wants to run stock because it's anything but "stock". Tuned engines, battery wars, etc. It's much easier to run modified and know you won't get out powered. If Stock brushless and LiPo catch on (not one or the other, but both) then you will see the return of stock racing. Right now, if you have a motor limitation then folks get turned off because they get "out batteried".
02-15-2007, 08:36 AM
#5
I race stock class buggy. And I use tuned motors, but I buy my batteries off of a local on-road driver. And I do quite well with those batteries but I do take very good care of them. I use a top of the line ESC because one thing that I've learned in this hobby is you get what you pay for. I like the stock class because I don't have the skill yet for mod racing. Where I race I don't see anytinhg like you guys are talking about.
I own two great chargers, and the proper dischargers and trays I take care of my buggy checking the diff every week and go through my bearings every other week. I learn to properly set-up my buggy to the track and learn to drive the buggy for that track. I try every place to get pointers from better drivers so I can see where they are going and why they did what they did to get the set-up they have. I'm learning how to properly set-up my radio to my driving style and the buggy or truck that I'm driving (thanks Doug). I love stock racing. Soon I'm moving to 19 turn. Then maybe this time next year I might be thinking about mod. I've had the chance to watch some of the top off-road electric and nitro drivers (Thanks Scotty) and I see how they drive and why they do what they do, so I don't think the hobby is moving anywhere but toward perfection. At least that's the way I see it.
I own two great chargers, and the proper dischargers and trays I take care of my buggy checking the diff every week and go through my bearings every other week. I learn to properly set-up my buggy to the track and learn to drive the buggy for that track. I try every place to get pointers from better drivers so I can see where they are going and why they did what they did to get the set-up they have. I'm learning how to properly set-up my radio to my driving style and the buggy or truck that I'm driving (thanks Doug). I love stock racing. Soon I'm moving to 19 turn. Then maybe this time next year I might be thinking about mod. I've had the chance to watch some of the top off-road electric and nitro drivers (Thanks Scotty) and I see how they drive and why they do what they do, so I don't think the hobby is moving anywhere but toward perfection. At least that's the way I see it.
02-15-2007, 09:17 AM
#6
Yeah, RTR is "ruining" the hobby... 
Since some of you don't seem to get it, I'll try to remind you as best I can. A "hobby" is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable activity. A hobby isn't supposed to be a career choice.
Some people (most,I would add, including myself) aren't worried about climbing some magical ladder, we just wanna go out and have fun. if a car is easier to drive, easier to maintain and/or keep running...that's a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Not all of us are able (or willing) to spend endless hours practicing...it's about priorities.
Since some of you don't seem to get it, I'll try to remind you as best I can. A "hobby" is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable activity. A hobby isn't supposed to be a career choice.
Some people (most,I would add, including myself) aren't worried about climbing some magical ladder, we just wanna go out and have fun. if a car is easier to drive, easier to maintain and/or keep running...that's a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Not all of us are able (or willing) to spend endless hours practicing...it's about priorities.
Last edited by Turbo Joe; 02-15-2007 at 10:51 PM.
02-15-2007, 09:30 AM
#7
Tech Master
RTRs make it easy to enter RC, but the person that buys one as the first RC is skipping an important process that a kit does and that is how to work on it by building it from kit form teaches one how to work on it. To me if you are going to race, you should know to work on it and RTR does not teach that. RTR maybe good for bashers, but not racers.
4wd RCs and especially the new truggy class is so easy to drive, but doesn't teach throttle/brake skills like a 2wd class does and all you get is a bunch throttle rippers that lack the skills to handle something with so much power and bite.
We are one temple shot to the head of a high flying 1/8th scale killing somebody at the track that will change things. It is just a matter of time.
4wd RCs and especially the new truggy class is so easy to drive, but doesn't teach throttle/brake skills like a 2wd class does and all you get is a bunch throttle rippers that lack the skills to handle something with so much power and bite.
We are one temple shot to the head of a high flying 1/8th scale killing somebody at the track that will change things. It is just a matter of time.
02-15-2007, 09:34 AM
#8
By pure classes, which classes do you mean exactly?
If you mean 2wd electric based classes, I think alot of it comes back to the percieved cost versus what performance you get out of it. When you try to sell people on an electric stadium truck versus the latest nitro monster (as monster trucks are one of the best selling for newbies I beleive), then add things up cost wise initially, even electric RTR versus nitro RTR, and then based on that go with nitro RTR alot of times as by default the stock setup RTR has the perception of being faster (and at times is), runs longer since you just need to fill and go, and appears to be cheaper as when you show then how much each of the better battery packs cost new (30 - 50 a piece) it doesn't appeal to them.
Plus, alot of times what they have seen running is the loud nitros that attracted there attention. Another thing could be a size issue as the vehicles are bigger, and that implies to people tougher, etc.
If I was a newbie again, starting out, I probably would have started with nitro too weighing in everything as that is the big thing out here and appears the most fun.
Don't get me wrong, I like the electric classes, but I can see why people start in the others. And when you do go racing, us racers don't seem to help the issue at times as people running nitro just seem to be more open to the various vehicles coming in in MT, 1/8 scale buggy and truggy since there is such variety. In the 2wd electrics, people about get laughed off the track I have seen if they run anything other than losi or AE. Not good, that person you were hard on could have been a future racer which in turn grows the class, but instead, you drive them away.
I could be wrong on all points and I accept that, but its just something I see from my perspective.
Personally, we should all just take our selves less seriously and remember this is a hobby, very few are making a living off of this.
If you mean 2wd electric based classes, I think alot of it comes back to the percieved cost versus what performance you get out of it. When you try to sell people on an electric stadium truck versus the latest nitro monster (as monster trucks are one of the best selling for newbies I beleive), then add things up cost wise initially, even electric RTR versus nitro RTR, and then based on that go with nitro RTR alot of times as by default the stock setup RTR has the perception of being faster (and at times is), runs longer since you just need to fill and go, and appears to be cheaper as when you show then how much each of the better battery packs cost new (30 - 50 a piece) it doesn't appeal to them.
Plus, alot of times what they have seen running is the loud nitros that attracted there attention. Another thing could be a size issue as the vehicles are bigger, and that implies to people tougher, etc.
If I was a newbie again, starting out, I probably would have started with nitro too weighing in everything as that is the big thing out here and appears the most fun.
Don't get me wrong, I like the electric classes, but I can see why people start in the others. And when you do go racing, us racers don't seem to help the issue at times as people running nitro just seem to be more open to the various vehicles coming in in MT, 1/8 scale buggy and truggy since there is such variety. In the 2wd electrics, people about get laughed off the track I have seen if they run anything other than losi or AE. Not good, that person you were hard on could have been a future racer which in turn grows the class, but instead, you drive them away.
I could be wrong on all points and I accept that, but its just something I see from my perspective.
Personally, we should all just take our selves less seriously and remember this is a hobby, very few are making a living off of this.
02-15-2007, 10:03 AM
#9
I just wish these guys who have been running a 4wd car for the past 4 years would balls up and give 2wd a go. It just seems as though people are scared to try it. 2wd nitro is by far the cheapest class to be competitive in. You can virtualy take a pros setup to the track for under $800 if you don't invest $300 in to a radio. The last time I checked you would be hard pressed to put a competitive 1/8th scale roller w/ engine on the track for under $800. People are oohed and awed by the latest brace for their 1/8th scale buggy that reinforces a spot which they have never had a problem with. However, when they ask how do you go faster and you tell them learn to drive 1/10th scale they just frown.
02-15-2007, 10:19 AM
#10
Tech Master
They never noticed ALL the top drivers in Gas and Electric from 1/10th scale to 1/8th scale drive everything and the ones that at the top in 2wd from Tebo to Drake to Maifield to Cavalieri they all make it to the top in 4wd classes easier by racing 2wd alot too!
All the guys around here are top 5 2wd racers jump into 4wd and go right to the top!
I try to tell those 4wd guys to race some 2wd would make them better and they're answer it is too hard to drive one! Duh!
All the guys around here are top 5 2wd racers jump into 4wd and go right to the top!
I try to tell those 4wd guys to race some 2wd would make them better and they're answer it is too hard to drive one! Duh!
02-15-2007, 11:31 AM
#11
I am a die hard 2wd buggy guy that was my first love in R/C yeah I had a xxt before my buggy but it wasn't until my xx buggy that I truly became hooked. I think a lot of guys discredit 1/8 just because there 4wd. Chad Bradley, Greg Degani and Jeremy Kortz all do very well with 1/8 and its been a long time since I have heard or seen them run 2wd.
In my opinion elec. 2wd killed itself, Its like was previously said first elec. guys are so rude to new drivers and are not very helpful to people just coming in. (I have seen this coming to a new track when i moved to AZ.) Where as gas you better get to know everyone because your gonna need pit help. The motor and batteries have improved in 2wd so the cars are supper fast but the suspension hasn't been beefed up and they break very easy. (people hate to break cars) Then there are the short mains while we have had batteries to do 10 min. mains for almost ten years the race time hasn't lengthened. With my Nitro buggy I will bring 2 sets of tires to the track for a big race. When i raced elec. you needed at least 1 set of rear tires for every 2 qualifers and another set for the main and some more for practice and thats if you are certain which tire will work. And now my final point blue groove tracks are to blame, when i started racing electric are local track would get ruts and we would shoot roostertails and it was a blast, Then very single big event went to a super smooth bluegroove surface that eats tires like mad, So then all the tracks went smooth and hard packed which eats tires more and turned elec. into onroad with jumps. It is the ruts and loam that brings me to 1/8 and because of the weight of the cars its hard not to have ruts.
In my opinion elec. 2wd killed itself, Its like was previously said first elec. guys are so rude to new drivers and are not very helpful to people just coming in. (I have seen this coming to a new track when i moved to AZ.) Where as gas you better get to know everyone because your gonna need pit help. The motor and batteries have improved in 2wd so the cars are supper fast but the suspension hasn't been beefed up and they break very easy. (people hate to break cars) Then there are the short mains while we have had batteries to do 10 min. mains for almost ten years the race time hasn't lengthened. With my Nitro buggy I will bring 2 sets of tires to the track for a big race. When i raced elec. you needed at least 1 set of rear tires for every 2 qualifers and another set for the main and some more for practice and thats if you are certain which tire will work. And now my final point blue groove tracks are to blame, when i started racing electric are local track would get ruts and we would shoot roostertails and it was a blast, Then very single big event went to a super smooth bluegroove surface that eats tires like mad, So then all the tracks went smooth and hard packed which eats tires more and turned elec. into onroad with jumps. It is the ruts and loam that brings me to 1/8 and because of the weight of the cars its hard not to have ruts.
02-15-2007, 11:56 AM
#12
Tech Adept
Craps - LOL 
, i took a direct hit temple shot to the head but luckily it was 1/10 scale stock truck, but OMG, it hurt like a mother, couldn't imagine mod, 1/8 or nitro
, i took a direct hit temple shot to the head but luckily it was 1/10 scale stock truck, but OMG, it hurt like a mother, couldn't imagine mod, 1/8 or nitro
02-15-2007, 11:59 AM
#13
To build on what has been said,I agree that if you can drive 2wd you can do well with a 4wd, but that brings up a counter point. As a newbie, if I know that I can better control a 4wd vehicle versus a 2wd one which leads to less frustration, why would I want to go with a 2wd vehicle?
Having seen various 1/8 scale club races, cost really isn't too big to be fun and competitive there either, of course depending on the club. There are plenty of 1/8 scale buggies and truggies out there that you can be quite competitive with and don't need to have massive amounts of money invested. And honestly, how much is really needed and how much is fluff? People will say well you need a 100 steering servo, throttle servo, 400 engine, etc. But in all honestly alot of that really isn't needed.
The tire issue that was brought up I fully agree with. I ran last year a 2wd buggy on a hard surface, and was shocked to notice how fast my tread was gone. 2 battery packs and I was done. Same surface, 1/8 scale truggy, tires were fine. Considering buggy tires run about 10 bucks a pair, that could get quite expensive.
I agree that I would love to see tracks go back to a situation where a step-pin tire isn't some trivia question.
Finally, I really want everyone to try and seriously hold your tongue before you go off on someone for having vehicle X that is not Losi or AE in those two classes dominated by it. I know I said this before but I will say it again, you only hurt your racing class.
Having seen various 1/8 scale club races, cost really isn't too big to be fun and competitive there either, of course depending on the club. There are plenty of 1/8 scale buggies and truggies out there that you can be quite competitive with and don't need to have massive amounts of money invested. And honestly, how much is really needed and how much is fluff? People will say well you need a 100 steering servo, throttle servo, 400 engine, etc. But in all honestly alot of that really isn't needed.
The tire issue that was brought up I fully agree with. I ran last year a 2wd buggy on a hard surface, and was shocked to notice how fast my tread was gone. 2 battery packs and I was done. Same surface, 1/8 scale truggy, tires were fine. Considering buggy tires run about 10 bucks a pair, that could get quite expensive.
I agree that I would love to see tracks go back to a situation where a step-pin tire isn't some trivia question.
Finally, I really want everyone to try and seriously hold your tongue before you go off on someone for having vehicle X that is not Losi or AE in those two classes dominated by it. I know I said this before but I will say it again, you only hurt your racing class.
02-15-2007, 12:47 PM
#14
Tech Adept
Cain and Rocket - i'm new to the hobby and see what you're saying about electric guys not being the nicest around but luckily i have meshed well with some who have been very helpful
About the brand choice, there is definately a prejudice to Losi and Assoc. in 2wd becuase they do make a strong, good setup but i'm with you Cain, we gotta be welcoming to the rookies/novices who have brand "X" who are having a blast, these are club races, all about having fun...they help fund and keep the tracks open too!
About the brand choice, there is definately a prejudice to Losi and Assoc. in 2wd becuase they do make a strong, good setup but i'm with you Cain, we gotta be welcoming to the rookies/novices who have brand "X" who are having a blast, these are club races, all about having fun...they help fund and keep the tracks open too!
02-15-2007, 01:36 PM
#15
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
ok hey guy i run 1/8 truggy class. i see what your talking about if you can drive 2wd you can drive it all. but 1/8 isnt that lame o any one can drive it fast class most of you are saying it is. my problem was that i had way to much motor and way to much finger for my own good. every time some one would get up close to me i would just give it more gas and try to out drive the guy behind me. never worked i would always lose my cool and over do it. that happends to all of guys in this class. its not jsut gas it and win, you have to learn to drive just like all classes. but yeah 2wd is the hardest to drive. and for rtr vs kits, i had a t maxx rtr for my first truck i was 11 and ill say this if a newbi wants to learn how to work on his stuff then he will. i pulled that t maxx part and put it back together like 12 time in the first week. i wanted to see how it works i wanted to know all about it. but a kit would be a good helper but most people jstu want to play first and then in there own time will start pulling it apart and playing with it.