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Old 12-11-2006, 10:58 AM   #31
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:59 AM   #32
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Yes, I'll learn that the car has more grip because I don't have any punch. I'll also learn that I can do the same thing buy turning the timing down or changing to a smoother motor. I'll also learn that all my friends will make fun of me and say I can't handle a real mod so I have to run 5 cells. Trust me I got some asshole friends, but they are right.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:01 AM   #33
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Off-road changed from 7 cells to 6 cells because the battery capacity increased enough to allow the use of 10 turn motors without dumping. We went from running 15-18 turn motors with 7 cells @1700 mah with low frequency speed controls and 4 minute races to 6 cells @ 2000 mah with 12- 10 turn motors with high frequency speed controls which were more efficient with 5 minute races.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:03 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAlford
Yes, I'll learn that the car has more grip because I don't have any punch. I'll also learn that I can do the same thing buy turning the timing down or changing to a smoother motor. I'll also learn that all my friends will make fun of me and say I can't handle a real mod so I have to run 5 cells. Trust me I got some asshole friends, but they are right.

Dave a slower motor still will not lower the weight ...

Don`t think I`m running with a bunch of slow driver`s
here in the N/w please .
and

last heat when I did my warm up , the comment was ...
Thats a 5 cell ?

Hummm .....
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:10 AM   #35
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I give up dude. You win. I'm tired of fighting about stupid stuff on this site. I'm tired of people trying to dumb down RC racing by using brushless and lipo so they dont have to do a bit of work on the car. I'm tired of people bitching that rc racing is too fast and we need to slow down.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:14 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
In real race car`s , don`t they install more weight when your car is too fast ?

I think its called a restrictor plate??

While I can see 5 cell packs as another tuning option, why is it that everyone wants to slow down the cars now? 4 cell touring cars, 5 cell offroad? Why? Whats the whole point? If MOD is too fast for you, go run stock or 19t, simple as that.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidAlford
I give up dude. You win. I'm tired of fighting about stupid stuff on this site. I'm tired of people trying to dumb down RC racing by using brushless and lipo so they dont have to do a bit of work on the car. I'm tired of people bitching that rc racing is too fast and we need to slow down.
Dave get it together ....

not trying to win a debate , or trying to dumb down anything !!

I`m trying to beat some the fastest guys in the N/w in Modiflied....

Brushless has nothing to do with this BDW as the same apply`s to brush motor as well...

and

I use 4200Ib pack`s ....

I work hard on my ride Dave , always working on something , just not grinding com`s and buying brush`s anymore though ..

Main reason why I have time to experiment...
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:25 PM   #38
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Does your car make weight?
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:45 PM   #39
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I am new to you guys here but I have been doing this for going on 28 years. I have always pushed the edge of the available technology. I have friends on the ROAR board ans when one of them said to me that they were talking of droping the cells to 5 I asked why. The response was not that it was too fast or too much weight it was because the brushed systems could not handle the increase in temps that has come around with all the advancements in every other aspect of racing.

My immeadiate response was too damn bad for the motor makers. Let them get off their collective asses and do some R&D. I still feel this way. They keep dumding down F1 in the same fashion and look at the drop in spectators. This is not the way to fix the problem. The motor and esc makers should figure out a way to make this better not cut voltage.

Look I am happy for you that you have found a set up that sutes your style of driveing. That is what this is all about. Please run your car at the races and I hope you win a lot. But When I got rid of my BJ4WE in favor of the TTech 10X everyone scoffed at me. But the fact was that the 10X suted my driving style better and my lap times were down. I am going the same down the straight (according to my logger) so no increase in speed just better handeling, FOR ME.

I am dieing for someone to come around and replace ROAR with a better system that can make all formes of power and motors copatable on the track. It can be done and should be done. I want to race my 1/8 scale cars and my 1/5 cars (all electric) on a real setting. There should be 20 to 30 minuite mains for electric and 15 minuite qualifiers. I am sick of 5 minuite runs.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:23 PM   #40
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Geez. I have an idea.

To save even MORE weight and get even MORE grip, why don't you just replace the batteries and motor with a giant rubber band. Prime her up before that race and you're set. That would FLY!

I can't believe no one has thought of this already.
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Old 12-11-2006, 02:36 PM   #41
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There is some interesting talk on another thread about voltage versus amps. I remember running 7 cells with 17 turn motors. They were silly fast and harder to drive (heavier car, too much mid range power) but the motors lasted lots longer. The talk on the other thread is that the onroad boys are only going to fry more motors running 4 cells because they will be stressing everything so hard that they will be fully dumping 4200's in 5 minutes (yikes!).

More volts=less amp draw for a given amount of wattage. 5 cells is a great tuning option for off road because no matter what you do the amp draw will never be that high. If you're going faster, more power to ya' (or less?). I think you are experiencing more punch because: a. the car is lighter, less mass to move and b. the power is more managable resulting in more usable power and less wheel spin. I have been doing the brushless/lipo thing and WOW! I need milder motors now.
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Old 12-11-2006, 09:21 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggyolkeo
Geez. I have an idea.

To save even MORE weight and get even MORE grip, why don't you just replace the batteries and motor with a giant rubber band. Prime her up before that race and you're set. That would FLY!

I can't believe no one has thought of this already.
Yup ! They Already did !!

way back, when we went from 7cell to 6cell ...



You what to know why I love Mod ?

You can run any motor power of your choice ....

and

battery too !!!!

Alberico,
weight tommorow , it will be close I`m sure...
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:11 PM   #43
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Hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse by this point, but....

Seems to me some of you guys didn't bother to read WildCherry's posts, he went down a cell and also dropped a turn on his motor. Since watts=voltage x amperage the amount of watts his motor his buggy is putting down is roughly the same (of course keep in mind one turn on a brushless is a big change, much more significant than one turn on a brushed motor). The acceleration was faster because the car had less mass to accelerate, so that means the tires didn't have to grip as much for the same rate of acceleration. If the rear suspension was softened so that the same amount of weight transfers to the rear then the tires will have the same amount of grip as if the buggy had 6 cells, but since it is lighter it can accelerate faster.
Now on a really loose track where the tires have to really dig into the surface to get grip the lower weight might just hinder acceleration since the tires won't have as much pressure/weight exerted on them.

Physics!
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:16 PM   #44
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you still have to make weight. so less voltage(potential) pushing the same amount of weight only gains you advantage in the wheel spin (less) department (depending on track conditions). It was a hard, slick track at the worlds, and that is why it was done there. there is no gain in transitional (left right) speed if you are carrying the 6th cell. if you are not running a 6th cell and were able to melt lead weights into forms between the cells to make weight you might gain some transitional speed. but you will end up spending more time trying to do all that and 'optimizing' weight location in the battery tray to make the cars front to rear feel the same.

If you were in fluff you would want all the weight you could get so the tires dig down faster, thats why guys add up to 1.5 oz in the rear of the car and possibly some up front also. I was up in michigan on some black dirt slinging rooster tails out the wazoo in september with silver studs, 1 oz under the rear brace, and it picked up 1-1.5s a lap in stock. At home here with the same weight on the high bite it was dragging the car down, rear was squatting too much. I could have gone to a stiffer spring in rear but i did not need more traction. i needed to not be moving excess weight around if i have an overabundance of traction. This is why certain forms of racing cars are made to be light.

and to clear things up. lowering the car "loses traction". raising the car "gains traction". read http://users.pandora.be/elvo/ -- suspension section, page 3 "roll center". its all summed up in the last paragraph.
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Old 12-11-2006, 11:41 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka
There is some interesting talk on another thread about voltage versus amps. I remember running 7 cells with 17 turn motors. They were silly fast and harder to drive (heavier car, too much mid range power) but the motors lasted lots longer. The talk on the other thread is that the onroad boys are only going to fry more motors running 4 cells because they will be stressing everything so hard that they will be fully dumping 4200's in 5 minutes (yikes!).

More volts=less amp draw for a given amount of wattage. 5 cells is a great tuning option for off road because no matter what you do the amp draw will never be that high. If you're going faster, more power to ya' (or less?). I think you are experiencing more punch because: a. the car is lighter, less mass to move and b. the power is more managable resulting in more usable power and less wheel spin. I have been doing the brushless/lipo thing and WOW! I need milder motors now.
david is correct. even though we are losing resistance also (series circuit), the voltage drop is greater and therefore an increase of amperage occurs with the same wattage. so you dump faster. this will end up forcing you to brushless. which at somepoint somebody might figure out how to toy with phase timing etc and you'll be dumping after a dozen years. i personally have an original novak super sport 5800. was nice to just wrench on setup but in those days it was just a constant stout torque. i do enjoy tossing in various brushed motors for stylin' and profilin' points as they seemed to have more torque. now with the new stuff i'm sure BL has made ground. i enjoy kicking back at home wrenching on things all day while watching racing or sports. guys and their tools! GRUNT.

i enjoyed basic electronics back maaany years ago in high school. soldering the lab partner or shocking them, or chatting it up with the teacher who had something to do with naval avionics. *shatner moment* just. got to. remember!
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