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Old 10-19-2006, 11:34 AM   #1
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Default EddieO for ROAR President

Regional Races:

The main focus of my efforts as president will be fixing the regional race system. While some regions have moderate turnout for their regional races, others are struggling for attendance, and in some cases a track willing to host the event. It makes it difficult for Tracks to see the point in hosting a regional event and sharing money with ROAR for little/no benefit for the track or the racer. Fifteen years ago, ROAR regionals were some of the most highly attended and prestigious races in the U.S. Winning a ROAR regional back then was a big step towards becoming recognized as a racer and getting sponsored. In present day, regional events are over glorified club races at best.

ROAR needs to show the racer incentive to enter regional events. The drive and ambition of racers participating in the Tamiya Championship Series is what ROAR needs to get back. Racers are driven to enter and win the TCS regionals because the series awards the top 10 finishers form each respective class a spot in the national event. (Incentive 1: you have to qualify to race in the national) From there if the racer decides to participate in the national, the winner of each class at the national event is awarded and expense paid trip to compete in the world championships. (Incentive 2: win the national, you are invited to the worlds).

ROAR can and needs this type of racing… racing with a purpose.

Convincing a racer to pay $30 in membership fees, and then another $30 in race entry fees for a cheap bowling trophy is not easy. However if you tell them that he/she has a chance to qualify for nationals and possibly get some travel money and things will change.

I woud like to see some sort of travel awarded to regional winners. There are a lot of regions and a lot of classes, its will to take some time and some research to see what is feasible, but something is possible and something needs to be done to restore these races to their former glory.

National Qualifier system:

Right now, simply anyone can get into Nationals if they sign up quickly enough. The problem is this just creates a large club race. Presently club racers and team drivers alike need simply sign up for national events. With the regional qualification system in place, drivers will ALL earn their spot in the national, preventing factory teams from flooding the classes with team drivers. All drivers at the national will have to have qualified at some point before the entries are open for the national.

Results from regional championships should be used as the main qualification for nationals. Obliviously a system will need to be in place to allow waivers and such for others who may not of been able to attend regionals, just as IFMAR does with the world championships. However we need to get serious, and send a message that nationals are the biggest title around and you need to earn your spot to be there, not just be the lucky guy who signed up first. Worlds is done like this our nationals should be no different.

Minor local events:

Make it where level 1 events can be sanctioned by ROAR, but do not require ROAR memberships to compete in. This may seem counter productive. Many people don’t see the value in ROAR. Allowing these events to be sanctioned will allow them to utilize ROAR rules. Racers will appreciate a clear and concise set of rules that easily accessible to everyone. The goal will be that racers and tracks will begin to see the value in a ROAR membership and hopefully join. If enough of these races begin to happen, they would be the first step in developing a national point system.

National events:

(Snowbirds, Cleveland, etc) --We need to use a similar process with these large-scale races. These events all use a ROAR based rule system for the most part, and 2005 saw the US indoor champs in Cleveland, WAIT for a ruling from ROAR on Two-Stage tires before allowing them to be used at the event. Why let these races use ROAR rules if they are not going to sanction the race? I am confident that if we allow these races to be sanctioned and use ROAR rules but without requiring ROAR memberships… within a few years, we could probably get them to require ROAR memberships. A majority of the racers at these events are more than likely ROAR members already. We need to show the value and importance of ROAR before we shove it down people’s throats.

We need to quit preaching the main reason to join ROAR is the insurance. To be frank, the insurance is pretty much a joke unless you are a CLUB that uses a park or something to host a race. Any permanent hobby shop with a track or affiliated with a track already has insurance, as do the big race events. The insurance is also very limited. It should be a side benefit, not the main benefit to being a member.

Manufacturer support:

Simply put, we need the companies to step forth and support ROAR. They continue to capitalize on advertising for winning ROAR events. ROAR continues to allow the use of these products in their events. Many companies are becoming more and more race oriented, so it’s in their best interest for ROAR to exist and for these titles to be the most prestigious in the land around.

I suggest ALL companies who have approved products be required to be ROAR affiliates. If at any time, they are not, the product becomes unapproved for use at ROAR races. I know this may sound harsh, but the simple fact is, they are using these races as means for testing, developing, and marketing of their products. ROAR needs to capatilize on this and use this for additional funding.

Requiring companies to be affiliates also gives ROAR more authority to discipline them for breaking ROAR rules. Again, this may sound harsh, but it happens in a lot of other sports. Fine or Sanctions against teams caught breaking the rules and such will help keep things on the up and up.

Lastly, we need to get the manufacturers to include a ROAR membership form in every car kit and possibly expand this to include information on how to get into racing, where to go, etc. The cost of this would be minimal and would certainly help raise awareness of ROAR to a ton of potential new racers. Go buy a set of poker cards and chips, don’t be surprised when you see the information in the package on where and how to get started in playing poker.

Establishment of National Tracks:

The money saved from the printing and distribution of rev-up can be used to fund National ROAR owned tracks. Non-Profit organizations can have assets, so what better way to use the money? Give us permanent tracks across the nation that can be used for regional, national, and world events. This is a long-term goal, but easily doable with the right support from the membership and the manufacturers.

Consistent, Precise and Fair Rules:

Consistent product approvals with ample lead-time and notification of the membership are needed. No more last minute approvals before a race. However not to limit advancements in the technology. The doors need to be opened up to allow for better equipment that lasts longer. Our stone age pricing limits and outdated technology rules are doing nothing but holding back or slowing product development, thus costing racers more money.

We also need to start publishing when products were submitted, that way the membership will be up to date on what is possibly going to be legal. Not to single out any manufacturer, but the two-week lead-time for the approval of brushless systems that were not commercially available nor gone through the approval process was complete bunk. It tarnished the outcome of the race and made ROAR look very bad.

Amendments to the Bylaws to protect the membership from unrecorded meetings and “good ole boy club” currently running ROAR from the top. The bylaws of ROAR are meant to be followed; yet they get broken multiple times per year. Accountability is required for Non-profit organizations, and is needed to give the members faith.

So yes, I am saying spend the money in a few different ways. We may come up short, we may need to increase fees, and we may need to get the manufacturers to chip in more…

The proposed uses of the money I am presenting gives a much better and more progressive value than what is being proposed, or has already been invoked by my opponents. Do we really need a national race management team, when we have hundreds of capable tracks around the nation who can run these races? Do we really want to spend the money sending our regional directors to races? Or would we rather reward the members? Maybe I am wrong, but who would be more likely to attend an event because the regional director is going to attend, or because they are given incentive to have faith in and support the organization they are members of?

I know some of my ideas may sound or be similar to ones others have posted, but I have been preaching many of these since last year when I intended to run for vice-president, but because of the new backdoor meeting rule that ExComm had passed, I did not qualify. Many Northwest area racers can back it up that I have been discussing my ideas for a while now.

I am only one person and I will only be one vote, but I hope to be the voice that convinces the others to do the right things by the rules, for racing and for the racer.

I would appreciate your vote in the upcoming election, name is is Eddie Goodridge.

A lot of discussions has gone on in this thread all ready


But feel free to post here, I will be answering questions all the threads.

Any questions, email me at [email protected] or post on here...

Later EddieO
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Old 10-19-2006, 12:51 PM   #2
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great post Eddie....

You represent a shift from the norm that needs to happen.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:03 PM   #3
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Wow!! Sounds like some rambling!! Roar is not a dictatorship. Maybe you should sit back and think of a way to take the peoples opinion before posting or trying to change the world. Some ideas sound good while others sound crazy! How do you propose (and what right do you have) to try to get races like snowbirds, cleveland, IIC to not use rules that may or may not be ROAR rules. Instead, step back and look at why these races are so successful and try to emulate some of the ideas that they have which makes the event so popular.

I like the idea of regionals meaning something but qualifing for the nats is not such a good idea. (The object is to include more people, not exclude them based on bad qualifing)

Look at the pro series. You had to qualify to make it to the finals. As of right now in some divisions 20 qualified in each class and only 6 are traveling down to the finals, while 30 people who will go do not have the opportunity. This will be bad for attendance if only qualifiers can go to the nats. An example, 10 people from my region went down to Nats. 4 that would of qualified 6 that would not of qualified based on top 20 qualifing. Not everyone travels to races for one reason or another. There needs to be ways to attract people other than qualifing through regionals.

After all, the biggest races in the industry have no regional qualifiers and mean the world if you win them. There is something else there that makes them so great.
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Old 10-19-2006, 05:38 PM   #4
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I think I take opinions pretty well....I have answered questions and presented my side...these ideas are based on 15+ years of racing and talking to tons of people...

In no point to imply to change anything in form of what a dicatorship does....

The ROAR rule book is a copyrighted document....use of it can be restricted, feel free to contact a copyright lawyer and have that explained to you.

The point of regional qualifying is not only to makes regionals mean something and increase attendance, but to also make NATIONALS mean something. Carpet Nats sold out this year.....some pretty good racers were left out in the cold because they didn't send their entry in as soon as they could....

I am not saying you can't race at Nationals if you didn't do regionals, I am saying it should be the main way to qualify and if you don't, then you apply for a waiver for entry. Qualified entrants get first crack at entering. Tons of other sports/hobbies use this system and it WORKS. You realize this is how Worlds works already right? We would just be expanding the system down one more level.

And your right, we do need other ways to qualify.....read my section on minor local races....getting these sanctioned under my proposed change would lead to an eventual national point system.....can't race at regionals, well sweet....you qualified based on POINTS.

Look at the Reedy Race, it uses a lottery system....completely random and hardly fair. Ask 100 racers if they would rather EARN their way in rather than a random lottery.....$100 bucks says EARNED wins hands down every time.

The big races are successful because they don't have a ton of BS around them....you show up and race and there is usually little controversy, not to mention international drivers can attend no strings attached...

And really, many of them are successful for the following reasons....

Vegas....ran by none other than Scotty Earnest, who puts on a hell of a race. Top talent from all over the world racing, some money on the line....all in sunny vegas....

Cleveland....pure history at this point. The race itself has many quirks, but its just so old its become a timeless classic.

Snowbirds.....Boylan and crew put on a unique race like no other, one that ROAR could never dupilcate because of rules and such. Snowbirds isn't just a race, its an experience....

Reedy Race.....held at a track that isn't really used much and when people do get a chance to run on it, they jump at it. The race itself is historical with a very unique format that also utilizes international talent...

The big four, just simply don't compare much to what a ROAR race is or needs to be. They are their own races....plain and simple. I must ask, have you ever been to any of them?

I find it funny, that one of my opponents wants to force a discount purchase system on all the local shops and tracks.....thus cutting the throats of many shops who barely make it buy....and thats OK....funny. Sounds more like a dictatorship to me....

Sorry if my ideas do not work for you.....they seem to be making sense to a lot of other people.....and a few opinions I have gotten has helped me develop ways to expand on them...

Later EddieO
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:01 AM   #5
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So far I like what I see. The qualifying for the nationals is great. Maybe it would clear up some complaints if there was some sort of a more indepth POSSIBLE layout. So many spots are secured through regionals. So many spots secured through another major race. So many spots for open signup.
And maybe a list that is used if no entries are received for these "qualified" spots 1 month before nationals the move to open signup? It is a tricky question but I do believe that you are on the right track.

I read somewhere about having a national track. I disagree on that one. I feel that it would be better if money is sent to the tracks holding regionals to offset there cost. Then that qualifies your track to host one of the next 2 national events. Maybe something like that. Most tracks need money help for regional and national events. I would believe that it would be a great thing for a track to advertise as a national level track.
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:02 AM   #6
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The rule book may be copyrighted, but it does not mean you cannot adapt a rule and use it. That's like saying, a movie is copyrighted doesn't mean you can't watch it or say lines from it to your friends. Means you can't resell it for profit!! YOU feel free to see a lawyer on that!! My wife is one!

Some good racers were left out because they didn't get the entry in time. Poor babies, get off your a$$ and get it in. Just because your fast doesn't mean you are more important than someone who pays cash on time or in a more timely manner.

Trying to make regionals more important by making it a qualifing event for the nats is pointless. Most people who run regionals ARE NOT GOING TO THE NATS!!! I understand Nats qualifies you for the worlds but only 200 people in the world can attend the worlds (which is a very small amount) Image how large this hobby could get if more than 200 people could run at it's most pretigious event. This is a hobby not a spectator event like nascar or F1. Maybe it would gain more interest.

Why should the reedy race not be for the average guys also?? Why should the same people who are fast run it every year? Isn't that what the invitational class if for?? Only so many people can get it so keep trying and you'll get the privelage of running at it. I'm sure the people polled would be the fastest drivers who didn't get it. Ask the average or slower driver who did get in and had a ton of fun.... I'm sure your pole results would be different.

Listen, I'm trying to help here. Do not take offense to what I say, but do what a reasonable person (who wants to represent people) does and listen to everybody.

I am a racer and have been for 17 years. Just because I make my money in a business other than this one does not mean I don't understand it. I have been to some of the above mentioned events as well as some of the biggest OFFROAD events, like silverstate, and the CRCRC race. We as racers sometimes think only of the racers or the fastest racers, when in fact every racer is important and deserves to be at an event. I'll never understand trying to include people because they are fast before the everyday racer. Every track has 1 or 2 fast guys and 20 or 30 average guys.

ROAR needs to give something back to it's members and the shops that support it. Not just the privalege of paying to run in the event, a rule book, and a cheezy publication once in a while. I've seen ROAR sign up a bunch of races at a local track, just to make cash and really did nothing to support the races or people, other than put the name roar on the flyer.

Please take this as constructive, and not be upset by my words. I too am not a fan at all of your opponent.
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:38 AM   #7
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I like a lot of what I am seeing. I understand the need for change.
ROAR to me has been in the business of babysitting. They don't look to the Rule book when they are called to do so. They ask first, "Who was it?" This kind of thing is biased before it is even considered. If a guy breaks the rules then they should consider the consequences, enforce and be able to justify why and how they did it.
Eddie I totally agree about the rule change regarding brushless. They did it in a completely underhanded manner. The officials were never brought to task on this and should not be allowed to represent the US in IFMAR's eyes. If you have written rules then you need to go by them. That product was not available! It could not be bought or tech inspected properly. It was a slap in the face to all of the companies that do develop products by the rules.
This is in no way an argument about the viability of brushless technology but more of an example of how "ROAR Officials" handle business today.

What are your thoughts on new classes? Longer run times in electric? LiPos? The promotion of the industry? What is ROAR's role and mission statement?

It seems it all needs to be addressed from the top down.

If I ask a question one more time and someone answers with, "Well we need to make everyone happy." I think I'll choke someone. Do some PR for yourself. Don't be an organization that just takes it in the neck. Be proactive! Look at the whole world and go with it.

What ever you do, be able to justify your actions within your rules and guidelines. If you do not then all repect will be lost.

Good luck Eddie!
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:09 PM   #8
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These are just my opinions, based on 10+ years of my own racing experience. Take it or leave it, haha.

I don't think ROAR should ever have any business telling racers what equipment they can and cannot use. The bigger non-sanctioned races in the U.S. can undermine any ROAR rule regarding equipment and these races have been MUCH more well attended than any ROAR event lately. These ROAR rules constructed to "control" the cost of racing instead make racing more expensive. As an example, a racer who went out and bought 4200's to use at nearly every non-ROAR race this past year, plus club racing for the year, would have to spend more money on legal batteries (or use his old batteries) just to race a ROAR race. ROAR's equipment approval process cannot keep up with the speed of the industry and understandably so. Have we already forgotten the body fiasco of the on-road Worlds in Florida? There are many other factors in creating a fair and balanced racing environment than restricting the use of new equipment.

There are much larger problems within ROAR's promotion of the racing segment of this hobby than creating a regional qualifying system or trying to use a points system to compare racers from different regions. The RC Pro Series has proven that this is IMPOSSIBLE to do fairly. By mandating that the majority of entries attend a regional to qualify for the Nationals you are creating yet ANOTHER race for the racing public to spend money to travel to, to a race that in the grand scheme of things will not mean anything more than the hundreds of "glorified" club races held across the nation every year.

There's a reason why these "glorified" club races have gained more prestige versus the ROAR National Championships in recent years. More professional venues, prolific advertisement and promotion, more competitive racing fields, and no-nonsense race direction by those within the industry who are still connected with what real racers what to see. Rules that can actually be enforced, an understanding of what is actually important in order to create a fair competition, and less bureaucracy.

I don't think having ROAR-owned tracks are the fix for anything. One of the most exciting parts of going away for a big race is to travel to a new area, race on a new track, and meet new people. The likelihood of being able to pay for the ownership and maintenance of these facilities is restrictive at best. Instead of stealing racers and business from the tracks that already exist, ROAR should be able to "adopt" the tracks selected for the following year's national championship in order to ensure the facility is rule-compliant, racer-accomodating, and prepared to hold and organize a good event.

Let's be realistic. There are not 250 drivers per racing class that are capable of being competitive at the National Championship level. At any given race, you've got maybe 10-20 drivers who are on pace and MAYBE stand a shot at winning; most often, there are five or fewer drivers who stand a serious chance. In the case of the Fuel Off-Road Nationals, this leaves 220+ entries who are at the event just for the experience! A vast majority of these racers take time off of non-industry jobs, spend upwards of $1000 on travel, hotel, and equipment, just to have the chance to go. Why make more hoops for these entrants to jump through in order to join in the experience and watch a good show? This is not the Worlds. There is no need for a resume process, or for qualification into the event. If you want to save entries for the top X drivers from the previous year's race so they cannot be excluded from the event by not signing up quickly enough, fine.

You will never, EVER, stop the factory teams from running new equipment within the rules that is not available to the public, short of using handout cars, radios, etc. And you will never stop the larger companies from stacking all important classes of competition with drivers who are supposed to win in order to advertise product, so stop trying. The 19T class did not help. A sportsman class will not help.

I may be one of the biggest supporters of a National Race Direction team and standardized tech equipment, I think ROAR did well to create this. I don't think that winning the bidding process to host a ROAR National Championship should include the burden of having to pay an adequate crew to help the track host the race. ROAR should supply, at the least, the SAME referees to supervise the track, driver stand, and pit lane behavior, and to operate the tech inspection area. That way the rules are the same, and interpreted the same, at every national event. No surprises, no open interpretation, no loopholes.

If your goal as a ROAR official is to promote the hobby, start at the bottom, do it at the grassroots level, and leave the Nationals alone!
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:21 PM   #9
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ROAR needs to get out of the racing business, period. Sanction races, make rules and come up with some member benefits.

It's time for ROAR to get back to the basics.
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Old 10-20-2006, 01:22 PM   #10
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With that said, it is nice to see the chance for new blood within the ROAR ExComm and Eddie, I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 10-20-2006, 03:37 PM   #11
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Aaron, for being a Losi guy (JUST KIDDING ABOUT THAT)... I have to admit that your opinions had me going hmph... I actually agree with all the crazy ideas he's suggesting.

Personally, when it comes to Mod, I do not see any reason for 90% of the rules. The only thing I always request are...

1. Tires should be available to the public since they are 90% of any car setup.
2. Motors should be available to the public as well since they make up another 5% of the setup.

The rest are all open and fair game as far as I am concerned.

Great post and I really hope someday somebody in ROAR takes heart to your suggestions.

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Old 10-20-2006, 04:07 PM   #12
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Very good post AW. I think we are on the same page for alot of the things ROAR needs. Starting at the bottom and working up. Making racing fun for more people. Include more people do not exclude people.
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:52 AM   #13
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Aaron, i don't agree with your battery statement,

the rules are designed to keep racing fair and predictable accross the entire nation, not to utilize the lastest technology, not to control cost. For instance, at the Reedy Race of Champions the open classes were allowed to run ROAR legal 3800mah batteries, the invitational class was allowed to run batteries up to 4300mah. The Vegas IIC race allowed up to 4300mah in every class. The Ko Grand Prix, LiPo was legal. Thats three different "legal" battery technologies in one year! That is certainly not ROAR making racing more expensive. To be competitive at each of these example races you would have to buy new batteries, to ROAR's defense, if you wanted to buy new batteries for nationals, at least the legal batteries are the cheapest to buy. If you had ROAR legal batteries, you still would have been allowed to run at all those races (maybe not competitively, but not many people are competitive even with the latest, gratest batteries, are they?). Besides, if the lastest greatest new battery was made legal as soon as it came out, what is the point of having rules anyway?
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Old 10-21-2006, 06:33 PM   #14
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Is it possible to solve the battery problem by just having it so that the Roar approved batteries don't have to be submitted at the end of the year to be approved for the next year?

Is it possible to have it so that when a new battery comes out, the company submits it to Roar and has them approve then an there so that us racers can use it immediately. This would get rid of the whole different batteries for different races thing, except for when LiPos are deemed legal of course.

Think about it. The only reason why those 3 races that Scrubb listed had different rules is because the problem that Aaron presented. Many races folloe the Roar rules, and others don't. If Roar was to immediately approve the new batteries, then there would be no reason why there would be restrictions on batteries at races. EX: If the 4200s and 4300s were approved when they were released, then the RROC would've deemed them legal. Then you could use those batteries for the IIC and the RROC. The fact that the KO race allowed LiPos is a whole different situation.

I think that Roar should not have the yearly submissions, and rather just approve batteries as they are developed.
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Old 10-21-2006, 08:42 PM   #15
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Good luck Eddie.

I think its important for people to remember that its impossible to fully explain ideas on a computer. The points made against the regional qualifying system were well founded but would have been unnecessary had Eddie mentioned that anyone could sign up for nationals after the regional qualifiers were allowed in-in his original post. As long as it is done in that manner it will not hurt attendance in any way and would actually bring some prestige back. Those that have written long posts know the feeling of "god how did I forget that" when someone calls you out on something you forgot to mention. I honestly think that anyone not excited by the idea of a revolution (of any kind) to the current Roar system may not fully understand how bad it has become.

Also, to address the battery limit dillemma. The way Roar currently does this is a problem. The best example would be the upcoming Reedy Truck race of champions. This race uses Roar rules and under these rules 3800s are the highest MAH batteries allowed. This is terrible for the average racer (and sponsored drivers alike) as 3800s have almost disappeared and it is extremely difficult for those in need of batteries to find them. I believe that Eddie's proposals on manufacture support (which you'll have to read yourself cuz its too long to repost) will help to prevent products from becoming obsolete so quickly.

Those are the only too ideas that I really felt the need to comment on. Otherwise I just wanted to re-iterate that there are a lot of ideas that have been posted that require further explanation for them to be totally understood and accepted. Please remember that this is the computer and we are all just people doing our best in our limited free time to improve a hobby that we love; and that sometimes it is difficult to have debates in the same fashion as one conducted in person.

I believe that all of Eddie's ideas have the potential to be completely positive by simply adding the phrase "if its done right..." to the beginning of each measure he's supporting.

I want change...we need change; I'm running out of places to race.
I vote for a new Roar, or no Roar.
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