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Old 08-28-2006, 10:05 AM   #16
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I find this discussion interesting. Does anyone know how many cycles a matched set of batteries accurately reflect the numbers printed on them? 10? 20?

I've heard its better to have fresher cells than to worry about hundredths of a volt.
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:15 AM   #17
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Fresher cells will out perform old cells any day of week. The spintec thing has been shown to rejuvinate old packs to close to new performance. It is a great maintance device from people to that do a lot of testing. That thing really works. I am not sure if there is a hard number to tell how long a pack will stay "fresh" I think some depends on how freq you use the pack and what you do to "maintain" it.
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:23 AM   #18
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isn't it true if you have an unmatched pack and you discharge it some cells still have juice left in them when the rest are completely discharged and when you charge the pack you "overcook" the undischarged cells and damage them? even if you use a tray and discharge each cell individually when you charge, some cells take more charge than others so the cells with less capacity will fry while the larger capacity cells are still charging? i thought that was the most important reason for having a matched pack.
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:30 AM   #19
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I do believe that some cells "fry" more than others...that's what happens when cells vent. And when cells vent while you're are charging it usually isn't the whole pack, it's one or two. To stop this from happening I would say to charge at a lower rate. I don't know if this means that one cell is getting more of a charge than the others...I would guess that it does.
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Old 08-28-2006, 10:55 AM   #20
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Yes, Yes and Yes.

We do not match cells on charging perameters but it tends to hold that cells that discharge at a certain capacity (runtime) will also charge within simlar levels. Discharging on a try that takes all the cells down to the same level is important for the reasons sedan mentioned. If you just discharge as a pack and and charge as a pack you will spearate the strong cells from the weak cells in the pack and you will end up overcharging the strong cells with more energy left in them from the discharge and you will overdischarge the weak cells.
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Old 08-28-2006, 01:27 PM   #21
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and that's why we have an equalizer!
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Old 08-28-2006, 04:49 PM   #22
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I am a club racer racing in the stock 2WD class and matched packs are much better. My four Team Brood matched IB3800 packs are the best packs I ever purchased.
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Old 08-30-2006, 02:50 PM   #23
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it is all relative.. (theory of relativity or something)

nut, it comes down to the track layout. i've dominated locally on the current layout because any joe shmoe can pull a motor out of the package and be fairly competetive due to the many turns, jumps and obstacles. my originally matched batts are 8 months old. I have a decently tuned stock motor and definitely not the speed demon down the stretch. Probably 4th or 5th in that dept. perhaps its gearing dunno. this layout calls for a bit of setup and a bit more driving than the last layout which was quite faster, less driving needed. i made no intentional changes to my car. It was nearly 2 years old so i replaced most parts to get the slop out, and the darn new rear brace that i found out was 030 taller. actually had the rear shocks mounted on the front of the tower for a few weeks and didnt realize it. but in any case the only thing i did was tried 3 different gear setups and thats it. went from 3rd or 4th to 1st.
was it the tighter car, perhaps. but i highly doubt it. the track is tough, you dont gain anything by going to mod. we tried it once to prove a point. I ran a KD 19 with 9 runs on it and still won. best mod lap was only .1 faster than the new record lap i put down in the stock mains on saturday. the car has to stay on the ground to go fast on this circuit.

on any speedy layout, money talks. It starts with batteries and works its way down the chain to the weakest link. matched batts will run more consistently from run to run by their very nature. all battery packs can only perform at the level of the weakest cell.

*intermission*

so we have this big ball of all the possible racing variables mixing around and relativity and newtonian laws.. in the end it depends on where and what you are racing.

anyone serious about being serious about racing will make sure their car is aligned, scaled, clean, running the best equipment for the particular track, tires, foam inserts, balls, bearings, motors, etc etc. if they aren't serious about it, whats does it really matter? just have fun! the only thing that hurts when you buy the "better" stuff is the wallet. (spousal jokes withheld)
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Old 09-01-2006, 06:55 AM   #24
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What gets me is all the stock racers using 3800's and 4200's... The new generation of 3600's have the same voltage, lighter weight and cost less. I use them in stock and 19 turn TC racing and have never had a problem with run time. I get Pro Match's at a good price ($40 for 1.21's - 1.23's pre builts) that's close to the price of unmatched packs. I like using "matched" packs because I know just what I'm getting, Their is a difference in batteries, Not just run time, If you race stock and want to be near the top you do need to pay attention to the IR and voltage more than run time, From my experience the higher the run time is the higher the IR is going to be...IR = PUNCH, Voltage = How much punch you will have. If you know what the numbers mean you can also gear the car/truck better, you can also pick batteries that can work better in certain track conditions, If you can pick up 1/10 of a second a lap just because a battery has better punch out of the corners why would you not seek this advantage ? I will agree that in Mod most of what I have brought up is a non issue but their are way more people running stock and 19 turn, This is where the matched pack have an advantage...
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:48 AM   #25
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I agree that you need that extra punch in stock and that the IR numbers do come into play...I do want to clarify that lower IR is better as they are quicker to release their energy. However most mid-level club drivers are better suited to packs that are NOT as punchy to smooth out their driving. Last year at a big club race, the person who won Sportsman mod ran a STOCK motor. Don't want to give the impression that punchy packs will make you faster which brings me back to the original question!
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:27 AM   #26
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I think that a lot of your "Question" has more to do with what your racing and driving skills than do you need matched packs. If your a good club racer and your racing Stock TC I would have to say if your not using good packs the "leaders will see you again in about 10 laps ( ) If your a novice and your running stock buggy I don't think you really need more punch. If your racing at So Cal in sportsman Stock or 19 turn off road you "might" want to invest in a few good packs (... I know that Fluff is going to say no but I have raced their and I think you do need them their... ) I do agree with MASON "it is all relative.. (theory of relativity or something)" If it makes you feel better knowing that you have good packs, buy them. If you feel good about running "culls" then run the non matched packs and feel good about saving money...
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Old 09-01-2006, 09:35 AM   #27
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I guess my question really boils down to power and the drivers ability to control it. If you have the best packs in the world and a dog motor then matched packs won't help. Batteries are just one part of the equation and I think that with the power the newer cells are putting out matched won't make that big a difference to most. I race at SoCal weekly and it's all about power in stock. I finish in the mid to upper A Mains consistantly and I know my batts are out of match (though they did start out matched.) Will I buy matched packs in the future? Yes I would and (SHAMELESS PLUG) only from Slingshot because Keith is extremly trustworty..not that the other are not.

I have also recieved some PM's from well known racers on rctech (who asked to remain annonymous) that have admitted to using unmatched and/or cheaper cells to win big races in their areas...

In sports people love to have the best equipment money can buy including myself...I just think at the end of the day if you're on a budget and are trying to decide where you should spend it...in offroad and with today's newer cells, matched packs won't be the difference in how you wind up in the mains...
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:47 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutfluff
I guess my question really boils down to power and the drivers ability to control it. If you have the best packs in the world and a dog motor then matched packs won't help. Batteries are just one part of the equation and I think that with the power the newer cells are putting out matched won't make that big a difference to most. I race at SoCal weekly and it's all about power in stock. I finish in the mid to upper A Mains consistantly and I know my batts are out of match (though they did start out matched.) Will I buy matched packs in the future? Yes I would and (SHAMELESS PLUG) only from Slingshot because Keith is extremly trustworty..not that the other are not.

I have also recieved some PM's from well known racers on rctech (who asked to remain annonymous) that have admitted to using unmatched and/or cheaper cells to win big races in their areas...

In sports people love to have the best equipment money can buy including myself...I just think at the end of the day if you're on a budget and are trying to decide where you should spend it...in offroad and with today's newer cells, matched packs won't be the difference in how you wind up in the mains...
I will agree with you on the off road part of the matched pack "Do you need them" because it's all about putting the power down and in most cases it's about your set up, tires and driving skills...In on road you had better bring it on the power, That goes for motor and batteries. For the most part in on road racing you can put the power to the ground so every bit helps. On that note I would assume (I do know what "they" say... ) that on a blue groove track you could put the HP down and batteries would then be important in stock and 19 turn.
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:58 AM   #29
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See as a stock racer, my matched packs have helped me a ton. I have practice packs that aren't matched that aren't as powerfull as my race packs because it's easier for me to get the proper set-up because it's easier to keep the car under control so I can see if the set-up works. I know for on-road you need the power. I really need all the help i can get so I race with the matched pack. My 2 cents.
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:09 AM   #30
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What are your practice packs truggy? I'm referring to todays newer cells...3700's and up. Does matched really equal power? Like I said, with these high capacity packs there are no problems with runtime and the power curves are so much higher that all of these cells have equivilant power througout the run regardless of the 3 hundreths of a volt. Maybe we should be matching IR instead of voltage for stock packs???? I have yet to get a pack with matching IR numbers...maybe we're on to something????
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