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Old 07-30-2006, 01:49 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binaryterror
Wow when I think off-road I think running slicks

Maybe its the tracks of the "off road" scene thats the problem. Wheres the Loam, the Deep dust, the mud? What's next ashphalt tracks?

See, I completely agree.... I started racing Off Road in the 80's and we ran knobby tires or step pins.... I haven't set car on my local off road track in 2 years because I felt it was pretty much on road with jumps...

Maybe it's time to go back to racing on dirt, not hard packed clay that resembles concrete. It's funny that a little dirt on top of the concrete would cause a concern.

I'm actually tired of the On Road BS and looking to come back to Off Road but I see with the exception of having to carry a tire truer it's the same nonsense. Well, at least there's not some great new car comming out every week that everyone needs to have....
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:21 PM   #62
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There are good points on both sides of this topic, racers do like to see new products and will buy what wins the big races. Although I feel in the 1/10th scale off-road electric class right now, new developement whether its tires or chassis components, is taking the back seat to electric touring and nitro racing.

From my personal point of view as a racer who has attended the 2003 ROAR mod nationals(Tiltyard in Virginia), 2004 ROAR mod nationals(ARCOR in NM)and the Hot Rod Shootout in 2005 and 2006 all out of my own pocket, I feel the spec tire or what the manufacturers are doing with the nationals the past years is great!! I go to these races to try and make the top 40, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't, and if I happen to make the top 30 or be close, I am very happy with that. Mostly I go to watch the top racers in the world run on the same track that I am on to see how I compare, and it is even cooler to see how they can drive using the same tires that I have, not something I can't get.

Anyways, I agree with the spec tire, coming from a traveling racers standpoint, it saves money and maximizes your track time to concentrate on driving and chassis set-up.
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:27 PM   #63
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i also have to agree with binary terror. when i started racing offroad you ran step pins and they lasted months, thats one of the reason i enjoy 1/8 off road so much. tires are usually harder compound cause the dirt is soft and they last for months. it also makes the racing more fun because a rough track can force a crash on even the best driver when they try to push to
hard. if the nationals where run on loam you would only need 2 sets of tires (in the right tread pattern) 1 set for qualifying and 1 set for the mains.

i have been out of the hobby for years but when i got back in i started racing 2wd mod, and every trip to the track i had to bring a new set of tires.

having to buy 100 sets of tires to race at a national is ridiculous.

and derekb i think that you didn't read the first post. this conversation is not about a roar rule if it was i believe most people would be on your side. this is about the 2 biggest mfgr. making a decision that helps them and helps the local racers, if i ran losi i would only buy about 24 sets of tires all losi treads with two kinds of foams 1 set for each qualifier and main and a couple to practice with. But that is why i would never race electric at that level or any level because i would have to buy that many tires to be halfway competitive. in 1/8 scale i ran 2 r/c pro events on the same set of tires (including a multiple practice rounds) i would be running 3 rounds but the last track oregon ran blue groove. if i had gone to the nationals at the farm i would have taken probably 3 sets of tires 4 at the most. and i would have felt competitive.
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:47 PM   #64
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If off road went back to racing on dirt and started using brushless your only expenditure would be entry fee's and broken parts....
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:25 PM   #65
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I never like dirt , clay allow`s the same tracks condition`s for everyone , its consistent , fair racing ....


You can`t achieve that on dirt tracks , that's why clay rules....
Dirt fun if,
you like pot holes that swallow Revos on every turn , jumps that wear down after a few heats , constant track maintenance that delays the event to late hour`s.... Ect...
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:41 PM   #66
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1. 1/10 cars can't make potholes in dirt deep enough to swallow revo's
2. no need for rocket round since everyone uses qualifer point system.
3. gas races water and track maintenence is down after racing. and they run just as many cars in teh same number of days.
4. track is the same for everyone, the fast line has to be found everytime your on the track instead of just follow the groove.
5. jumps don't wear down in 1/8 and truggy racing with cars that weigh twice as much.
6. don't need 100 sets of tires to go to a national.
7. offroad tracks are not supposed to be consistant, it is offroad racing, if you want consistant go race carpet.
8. why have all that suspension travel you don't need it for the jumps. what the point in haveing an offroad track smooth enough to run a touring car on.

i personally think one of the major reasons 1/8 has become so popular is because the tracks are like most electric tracks were 10 years ago. when i started racing electric regurally my track would rut up bad at the end of the straight away traction rolls were common (if you took the wrong line.) sometimes you could shoot up rooster tails leaving a turn. it was FUN.

i can say its not fun to run a 1/10 on a 1/8 track but when the ruts are made by 1/10 they are not too large.
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:56 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
I never like dirt , clay allow`s the same tracks condition`s for everyone , its consistent , fair racing ....


You can`t achieve that on dirt tracks , that's why clay rules....
Dirt fun if,
you like pot holes that swallow Revos on every turn , jumps that wear down after a few heats , constant track maintenance that delays the event to late hour`s.... Ect...

Isn't that what off road is? Running through ruts and always looking for a new line?

We never had jumps wearing down on a race day nor track rutting up so badly it would change the line.

If you want a consistent track, put some jumps on an carpet track and run foams.
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:57 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripthreat
I have never been to a race where the top 3 didn't all run the same times as 19 of the top 20... IMO
Amezcua won 2wd at the Shootout with Red X-2000s...
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Old 07-30-2006, 09:31 PM   #69
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Derek, I said what I did because of the following. Apparently I need to spell this out since you couldn't seem to connect the dots on your own.

You're the editor of an RC car magazine. Your main source of income (please correct me if I'm wrong on this) is revenue from selling ad space in the magazine.

There are two main reasons for companies to buy ad space - keeping their name out in front of customers, and to announce new products.

If the manufacturers can't come out with new products due to some imposed restriction by a racing organization, that means they won't spend as much money on advertising, and you have less things to write about each month.

I won't try to argue about whether you like to spend as much money as possible or not. I've raced with guys who do. I like getting new toys as well. I'm just saying that because you have a vested interest in seeing manufacturers come out with new products, then there MIGHT be a SMALL chance that your viewpoint could be SLIGHTLY influenced by that fact.

By all means Derek, correct me if I'm wrong!

Did this reply explain my position well enough for you to understand? Or, was it too childish again?

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Old 07-30-2006, 10:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkarTisu
Derek, I said what I did because of the following. Apparently I need to spell this out since you couldn't seem to connect the dots on your own.

You're the editor of an RC car magazine. Your main source of income (please correct me if I'm wrong on this) is revenue from selling ad space in the magazine.

There are two main reasons for companies to buy ad space - keeping their name out in front of customers, and to announce new products.

If the manufacturers can't come out with new products due to some imposed restriction by a racing organization, that means they won't spend as much money on advertising, and you have less things to write about each month.

I won't try to argue about whether you like to spend as much money as possible or not. I've raced with guys who do. I like getting new toys as well. I'm just saying that because you have a vested interest in seeing manufacturers come out with new products, then there MIGHT be a SMALL chance that your viewpoint could be SLIGHTLY influenced by that fact.

By all means Derek, correct me if I'm wrong!

Did this reply explain my position well enough for you to understand? Or, was it too childish again?

- Marshall Skare
You don't need to connect the dots for me my friend. Like I've said before if I'm bought out, I'd like the checks to be sent to me. I know it's hard for you to understand that some people actually have integrity in what they do. Our magazine is out to make money, as is every company out there (even the ones that say "we're doing it for you")

What doesn't make sense with your 14 year old implication, is that I'm speaking out against manufacturers? So how is this in conjunction with what you'd like to "beleive?"


May you can correct me if I was wrong, but what I'm arguing for is product that doesn't wear out in one run, ESCs that don't blow up, stuff that's better for the consumer. What you're foolish comment doesn't address is that our magazine is about readers, without them trusting some of the stuff we do how do we get advertisers to spend money.

So when these stupid, childish, comments come out, without much thought (obviously) they annoy me. I do this for a living and contrary to your internet wisdom I do this because I was a racer and went through all this stuff. It's a strange world when we trust a poster on the internet over somebody that actually as something to lose.

So do me a favor and go back and read what I'm arguing about, even go over to the world's post where they want to run 4-cell because ESCs and motors are blowing up and think outside the narrow box you are sitting in. Long term having better products is cheaper.

And say what you want about me, my magazine, but when stupid comments are made like that they are just as bad as me calling you an idiot. You may not like your job, or care if people think you are just doing it for the money, but making that implication about me is really, childish.

If you need anymore "spelling out" or want to talk to me in person. Feel free to email me [email protected] or call me. I'd like to hear how you think that because our magazine is in businesss to make money that I don't look out for the people that matter.
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:52 PM   #71
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How can you have Progress and Evolution when nobody makes improvements, Thats why i like the MT's, always something new every couple of months, maybe good maybe bad , but different
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Old 07-30-2006, 11:56 PM   #72
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To keep this topic on track, we should avoid trying to say who's opinion is valid or not valid. We're all discussing and making points. If you can't stay away from personal attacks and childish accusations, then don't post.
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Old 07-31-2006, 01:17 AM   #73
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R&D isn't going to stop because there are spec tires at large races. There will always be different tires for different surfaces and there's going to be competition to BE the spec tire -- and for that matter, neither Proline or Losi are going to want to be the spec tire that everybody hated.

The idea isn't to stop development, it's to cut down on the choices and by extension, the expenses for the racers. I guess you could draw the argument out to say it becomes cheaper for the tire companies because they can achieve some economies of scale by just providing one model of tire...but I don't really think that's the point.

As for doing R&D at big races, I think you're confusing the R&D thing with just trying out different tires to see what works best that particular weekend. Do you think that making and trying to sell a compound developed specifically for one particular track in late summer is a good business move? They may bring a bunch of different tires for their fast guys to try out, but any given track on any given day is just one data point. The point is to sell lots of tires to the people watching the fast guys...not sell them TO the fast guys.

Nobody's going to hold off making the newest, latest, greatest tire because some "nationals" race uses a spec tire...maybe if every offroad race, local and "national" went spec and they all used the same one...then you might have some problems. That's rather unlikely, don't you think?

The crowd at a "national" is only a flyspeck compared to the larger market. I highly doubt that the average consumer knows what tire any main event winner is running...maybe the brand because of the stickers on his shirt, but that's all. If they know the tire and the compound, they know better than to think that they need that tire to go fast at their track.

I don't doubt your sincerity or integrity. I know plenty of magazine guys and I've been around the business for a while. I just think you're worrying about a problem that doesn't exist and isn't likely to exist in the future. Lots of big onroad races use spec tires...yet now there are new brands of tires coming out all the time. If it's done right (appropriate tire choices and tight controls), it can be a good thing for everybody. RP has made some inroads by being a spec tire...you can't say it hasn't helped them and I don't think anybody is going to stop buying Sorexes any time soon...well when everyone goes offroad maybe.

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Old 07-31-2006, 06:26 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
I never like dirt , clay allow`s the same tracks condition`s for everyone , its consistent , fair racing ....


You can`t achieve that on dirt tracks , that's why clay rules....
Ok in your own "wisdom" then lets make tracks from Ashphalt or better yet poured 8" thick concrete flooring. The track will never wear, not even at the rate of clay. Plus you think clay eats tires, try hot ashphalt or better yet rough top concrete. The jumps won't "wear" as you seem to think dirt ones do. I race many outdoor DIRT track not clay and with proper packing/tamping and layout the track can last a long time.

People whine, dirt is dirty and gets my truck all muddy, welcome to off road racing. Clay is better, whell dang right and so is ashphalt...lets all go run on-road with jumps...do it.

Even though I got burned hard this weekend thanks to Qualipoints, I'll tell you what thats fair and consistent, and not a track. Even grooved tracks are liable to chunk and cause problems.
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Old 07-31-2006, 07:36 AM   #75
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Limiting tire selections is fine with me, just try not to announce it a week before you travel to the race. Good luck finding the front pink tapers for a 4wd. I remember this problem from last year.
Good luck to everyone going.
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