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Old 06-13-2006, 10:37 PM   #31
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Holy cow.........

On topic......Did anybody even check out the link I posted to the diesel conversion heads for nitro engines? sheesh......

Off topic.......I absolutely love my diesel truck. The newer direct injection diesels (roughly 2003 and newer) are nowhere near as dirty as the old school engines...If the low sulphur diesel fuel ever gets going good, then you "diesels are always dirty" dudes won't have anything to complain about.

I checked out the site, pretty cool. But why is it that after 30 years, it isnt more popular? If its that good, I would think that it would be more popular. Obviously, it looks to be popular in airplanes. Does it not make enough torque or power on the low end to get the snap off the line in RC cars and trucks need (or that people want)?
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Old 06-14-2006, 03:02 PM   #32
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Does it not make enough torque or power on the low end to get the snap off the line in RC cars and trucks need (or that people want)?
I remember when there was a RCCA review of an RC10-Gt with a converted CZ-R engine in it. They said it had crazy torque and tended to kill the clutch shoes. I think it didn't catch on for two reasons.

1. Limited RPM range (1000-18,000 for the CZR I think)

2. Fuel was expensive and hard to ship since it contains ether (I think it has ether).

someone correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 06-14-2006, 04:50 PM   #33
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How about 4-cycle engines for RC Cars? I know making them small enough to fit in an 1/8th scale buggy or truck would be a challenge but I am sure it can be done.

I just hope the EPA doesn't find out about nitro powered RC Cars and ruin it like the dirtbikes. There is no way in hell nitro is good for the environment. We are buring nitro menthonal (SP) and oils and dumping the left over emmisions into the air!

I'm sure my nitro car makes more pollution than a city bus does...
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Old 06-14-2006, 10:04 PM   #34
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How about 4-cycle engines for RC Cars? I know making them small enough to fit in an 1/8th scale buggy or truck would be a challenge but I am sure it can be done.

I just hope the EPA doesn't find out about nitro powered RC Cars and ruin it like the dirtbikes. There is no way in hell nitro is good for the environment. We are buring nitro menthonal (SP) and oils and dumping the left over emmisions into the air!

I'm sure my nitro car makes more pollution than a city bus does...
Actually the alcohol fuel burns cleaner than diesel or gasoline. The nitromethane is mostly consumed and whats left is water soluable and is gone in no time. The oil may be a problem if it's synthetic but castor oil and other oils are "organic" and derived from veggies. So I really doubt that the EPA will pose a threat to model engines in the near future.

BTW OS makes several 4-stroke engines that will fit in 1/10 and 1/8 scale buggies and trucks. The drawback is that you put in a .26 in the 1/10 and a .40 in the 1/8 and gear it up to make up for the lack of high rpm. Why don't you see these, because they are not race legal.
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:08 PM   #35
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Oh yeah, and just for the people that bag on V-8 "gas guzzlers". Chevrolet has a 5.3 liter v-8 available in the trucks and suv's that can run on standard gas or E85, or a combo of both. For those that dont know, E85 is 85% methanol (man made fuel/ derived from corn) and 15% gas. It typically has a higher octane which means good power and mileage and it burns SUPER clean. Cars and trucks today have way more power and burn waaaayyy cleaner than vehicles even just 10years ago. Pretty sure that RC nitro engines are at the bottom of the list of To-Do's for the EPA.

E-85 only reduces emissions and foreign oil dependency. MPG is lower on E-85. And the higher octane does not increase performance. Unless your compression ratio in your engine is higher.
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:28 PM   #36
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E-85 only reduces emissions and foreign oil dependency. MPG is lower on E-85. And the higher octane does not increase performance. Unless your compression ratio in your engine is higher.
You are correct. A fuel rated at a higher octane is less volatile (higher octane retards combustion so you can use a higher compression ratio engine which just rams more fuel and air into a smaller space heating it up more and that's why it needs to be retarded).
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:29 PM   #37
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Thanks to all of you that have shared your opinion on this topic...obviously many of you know quite a bit (much more than I do) about the composition of different types of fuel. I think the idea of this a biofuel engine is just to get people talking about the possibilities and the technology itself, not only its use within the RC community, but within other applications as well. Am I alone in thinking that many forms of racing pioneer new engineering and technology that eventually descends into consumer uses?
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Old 06-15-2006, 10:39 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by nemesis77
How about 4-cycle engines for RC Cars? I know making them small enough to fit in an 1/8th scale buggy or truck would be a challenge but I am sure it can be done.
Yes, it can be done, but it requires lots of work and custom fabrication. Also, they end up smoking (and probably polluting) MUCH more than their 2 stroke counterparts because you run higher oil content fuel. They are INSANELY cool sounding, make good power and always draw a crowd!

As for the city bus comment... Well, it is possible to run a tank through a gas truck (or 2 trucks) in a small indoor track with no ventilation and not have to worry in the least about asphyxiation. That's about 13 minutes of heavy throttle use. Try repeatedly revving the engine on a city bus inside that same building for the same amount of time. If you didn't choke and have to shut it down because of all the soot (black diesel smoke), you'd probably die. Moral of the story is this: There's no replacement for displacement, this is true for pollution too when you're comparing engines of such different displacements as a .12ci r/c car engine and a city bus engine. It's the difference between lighting a candle and a bon-fire.
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Old 06-16-2006, 01:35 AM   #39
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incresed compression is only one thing that is possible with e85...what about timing advance too...you can grab a few more ponies on the top side...is it possible that we are on the verge of a cheaper fuel with a higher octane...

what would have to be done to make a "normal" vehicle run on this stuff...will it be possible to re tune the computer to run on it or will it entale new injectors...if new injectors i would imagine they would be a higher flow...would the stock fuel system flow enough fuel?

also look back to the 50's and 60's...most engines were designed to run on leaded fuel...using the lead to lube the valve guides among other things...i guess its not that different from now...
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Old 06-16-2006, 06:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildChild
incresed compression is only one thing that is possible with e85...what about timing advance too...you can grab a few more ponies on the top side...is it possible that we are on the verge of a cheaper fuel with a higher octane...

what would have to be done to make a "normal" vehicle run on this stuff...will it be possible to re tune the computer to run on it or will it entale new injectors...if new injectors i would imagine they would be a higher flow...would the stock fuel system flow enough fuel?

also look back to the 50's and 60's...most engines were designed to run on leaded fuel...using the lead to lube the valve guides among other things...i guess its not that different from now...
ECU programing is different along with components in the fuel delivery system is different. To retro a vehicle to e-85 may be cost prohibited. Just do not use it in your car if it is not a flex fuel vehicle. It may be tempting since it is about 30 cents cheaper per gallon.
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Old 06-16-2006, 10:54 AM   #41
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Just looking at this on Chevrolets website:

Standard in 4x4 and available in 2WD models, the NEW FlexFuel Vortec 5.3L V8 engine can run on either gasoline or E85 — a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline — or a combination of both. E85 ethanol fuel is a cleaner-burning, renewable fuel source made primarily from U.S.-grown biomaterial, such as corn or other grain products, that can enhance the nation’s economy and energy independence. More facts about E85 ethanol:

E85 fuel generally has a higher octane rating than regular unleaded gasoline, which can result in slightly higher horsepower and torque levels.
E85 helps reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Driving a Chevy Avalanche FlexFuel vehicle on E85 ethanol for one year puts 1.7 metric tons less greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere.
39 million acres of U.S. cropland is available, enough to produce 16 billion gallons of E85 ethanol fuel.
GM is a leader in producing E85 vehicles. In fact, this year Chevrolet will offer more car and truck choices capable of running on E85 ethanol than any other brand (based on 2006 competitive information).
E85 fuel availability varies by state. Go to livegreengoyellow.com to see if there is an E85 fuel station near you.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:05 AM   #42
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They fail to tell you about the fuel mpg. Which will be 1/3 less.
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Old 06-16-2006, 11:13 AM   #43
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"Can" doesn't mean "does". ALso it's "can" along with "slightly"...

I "can" make more power with methanol than 87 octane pump gas...but if you use methanol in your Tercel, it will run horribly if at all.

Most flex-fuel vehicles have a sensor that detects the quantity of gasoline vs. alcohol and adjusts the timing and fuel delivery to suit the fuel...but the motor itself doesn't change.

To make more power, you'd have to raise the mechanical compression ratio. Alcohol motors typically have quite a bit higher compression ratios than gasoline-fueled motors. Alcohol funny cars can have 15:1 and 50 pounds of boost, normally aspirated alcohol race motors can have 16-17:1 c/r.
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:01 PM   #44
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Yeah, I noticed where it says that "it can result in more horsepower" Nice play on words. They dont say that it does, and I didnt even realize that they didnt say anything about the mileage. Is it really almost a 1/3 less in mileage?
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:11 PM   #45
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Yes, there is significantly less energy in E85 than even a 10% to 15% blend of ethanol in gasoline as you get now in most cities.
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