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Old 06-12-2006, 09:53 PM   #16
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Scrubb- Interesting links...thanks for posting them!


I think many of you are partially missing the point of this topic, which was to discuss the idea/rhetoric of 'alternative fuel' (biodiesel more specifically) for RC (racing) applications...maybe there is a better idea out there? I don't know. Fuel cell technology (as it exists in a few full scale applications) is fascinating, as is the use of ethanol, which is already seeing some practical use around the country.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:16 PM   #17
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Bio-diesel and other alternative fuels are coming wether we like it or not. The world WILL run out of gas- literally.

The reason that boi diesel and alchohol are a good idea is that they both come from renewable sources.

For R/C cars? I doubt it. It took 25 years to get synth radios (the technology was always available) and it happened just in time for DSM to come out. Nitro will be around and dominant just as long as we keep buying it and not a day longer.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:24 PM   #18
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Hi J. Filipow.

Just because something is problematic to develop, doesn't mean it's not worth doing: we owe many of the things we have/use in our daily lives to peoples' "crazy", "nonsensical" dreams and ambitions.

While i'm not sure something like biodiesel will reap great dividends down the line, it's certainly a great experiment, and who knows, may just be a stepping-stone to something even better at some point.

Personally-speaking, I look foreward to the day when I'll be able to run my water-powered r/c buggy for 5 hours straight on a rainy day: just plop a good ol' funnel over the tank and drive to your heart's content--no pitstops
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:46 PM   #19
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Well, my neighbor has a friend that runs his old Mercedes diesel (mid 1980's)on "french fries". He goes around and collects the old grease from all the local McD's, Jack in the Crack's etc. He has some filtering/processing set up to make the grease usable in the car. Sure, its cheaper than going to the gas station, but the work involved seams like alot. Definately not for your average person. From what I understand the Mercedes runs good, but he actually lost about a mile per gallon (gets around 21). Like someone stated above, the r&d needed to get something like that to work would be enourmous, not mention either that company or someone else would also have to come up with the new fuel as well (along with the process and equiment, etc, etc) With as small as the engines are, and as little actual emissons that they probably put out, I doubt there will be "alternative" fuels in this industry for a very long time. Look at the dirtbike industry, for as long as the EPA has been trying to kill the 2 stroke, no one has comeup with an alternative fuel for it either. I'm sure if Yamaha, Honda or Suzuki knew there was viable alternative besides just going to 4 strokes, they would have already shown the possibilities. You know they have the $$$$ to backup the R & D if necessary.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:47 PM   #20
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First off...RC fuel isn't related in any way to hydrocarbon fuels that you use in regular cars or SUVs. Diesel is a hydrocarbon fuel...gasoline is hydrocarbon fuel.

RC cars, at least the two-stroke compression ignition types, run on alcohol-based fuels...made of a mixture of methanol (or ethanol) and nitromethane (basically oxygen-supercharged alcohol).

In terms of typically measured emissions (HC, CO, NOx and CO2), alcohol-based fuels are quite environmentally friendly and are made from what are basically the byproducts of oil or coal processing. Using them as a fuel creates some nasty stuff, but not in great quantities and not very persistent.

There's NO WAY that we're gonna run out of alcohol-based fuels and there aren't any emissions requirements or concerns regarding them. You can make suitable fuel out of all sorts of stuff...they're really cheap, really clean and you can make them from renewable resources.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain america
Hi J. Filipow.


Personally-speaking, I look foreward to the day when I'll be able to run my water-powered r/c buggy for 5 hours straight on a rainy day: just plop a good ol' funnel over the tank and drive to your heart's content--no pitstops

That funny right there!! But what about us guys in Californa, where "it never rains"?
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:50 PM   #22
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Wow alot of these posts say that theres too much work involved.... Is that what this world has come to? Are people just lazy and dont care if they're killing mankind and the world as long as they don't have to break a sweat or lose a couple bucks???? Everyone has an excuse for not doing something. If there's a solution to this problem then who cares how much work has to be put in it as long as the outcome is better than it is. People need to stop being lazy and get off their ass's.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:10 PM   #23
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Oh yeah, and just for the people that bag on V-8 "gas guzzlers". Chevrolet has a 5.3 liter v-8 available in the trucks and suv's that can run on standard gas or E85, or a combo of both. For those that dont know, E85 is 85% methanol (man made fuel/ derived from corn) and 15% gas. It typically has a higher octane which means good power and mileage and it burns SUPER clean. Cars and trucks today have way more power and burn waaaayyy cleaner than vehicles even just 10years ago. Pretty sure that RC nitro engines are at the bottom of the list of To-Do's for the EPA.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:24 PM   #24
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"E85" stands for 85% "E"thanol/15% gasoline.

Methanol and Ethanol are similar fuels, but not the same fuels. Ethanol is made from organic materials, Methanol is usually made from coal or crude oil refining byproducts.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:41 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcdude19641
Wow alot of these posts say that theres too much work involved.... Is that what this world has come to? Are people just lazy and dont care if they're killing mankind and the world as long as they don't have to break a sweat or lose a couple bucks???? Everyone has an excuse for not doing something. If there's a solution to this problem then who cares how much work has to be put in it as long as the outcome is better than it is. People need to stop being lazy and get off their ass's.
You forgot to read the parts that say that its not worth the time/cost/effort. It has nothing to do with being lazy. The RC nitro industry is a dust spec compared to what the EPA (or anybody for that matter) is dealing with as far as "greenhouse" is concerned. They are still dealing with manufacturing plants, automobiles, and off highway vehicles (dirtbikes,quads, boats,jet skis, etc). If you follow the aftermarket auto industry at all (specifically SEMA), you would understand the expense and time and effort involved in making parts smog legal, that can make power gains and still pass the tailpipe test for emissions. California is the standard that everyone goes by, most states have adopted California's standards, but there are still others fighting to keep their own lower standards. Better tell those lazy states to get off their asses and do something! GM, Ford, Chrysler all have standards that have to be met over the next 3-4 years that drop their total emissions output for production vehicles. You ever tried to get anything chrome plated lately? Like a bumper or wheel? There are soo few chrome shops anymore because the emissions the shops produced was aweful. Manufacturing plants are a big source of pollution that no one seems to try to do anything about. Anyways, there are plenty of non-lazy people out there doing their part to help the earth stay clean. Until then, I dont think anyone is going to get off their lazy ass and do something about the RC nitro industry a while, its not worth it. Unless of course, you have the money, time, knowledge and effort to do it yourself!
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:47 PM   #26
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[QUOTE=Turbo Joe]"E85" stands for 85% "E"thanol/15% gasoline.

Methanol and Ethanol are similar fuels, but not the same fuels. Ethanol is made from organic materials, Methanol is usually made from coal or crude oil refining byproducts.[/QUOTE

Ooops Thats what I meant!!! Typo, thanks for the edit Turbo
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc-hopsing
Oh yeah, and just for the people that bag on V-8 "gas guzzlers". Chevrolet has a 5.3 liter v-8 available in the trucks and suv's that can run on standard gas or E85, or a combo of both. For those that dont know, E85 is 85% methanol (man made fuel/ derived from corn) and 15% gas. It typically has a higher octane which means good power and mileage and it burns SUPER clean. Cars and trucks today have way more power and burn waaaayyy cleaner than vehicles even just 10years ago. Pretty sure that RC nitro engines are at the bottom of the list of To-Do's for the EPA.
what about the added consumption...when racing i decided to swap from avgas to methanol...it made 20% or so more power but took almost twice as much fuel...???


and another thing about "technology" is that it usually forces new purchases to use it or it requires some form of conversion...also costing more money...sure it may save you in the long run but the initial cost for some is not practical...


sorry to deviate from the bio desiel topic...
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:21 AM   #28
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Whilst you may be using 200% the fuel you were, you have to understand that you're burning cleaner. If you're using high quality nitro then your sulfur and aromatic emissions (and other less than desirables) are reduced.
CO2 is good compared to many other emissions from incomplete or complete combustion.
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Old 06-13-2006, 12:50 PM   #29
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yes...CO2 is way better than CO...
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Old 06-13-2006, 05:29 PM   #30
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Holy cow.........

On topic......Did anybody even check out the link I posted to the diesel conversion heads for nitro engines? sheesh......

Off topic.......I absolutely love my diesel truck. The newer direct injection diesels (roughly 2003 and newer) are nowhere near as dirty as the old school engines...If the low sulphur diesel fuel ever gets going good, then you "diesels are always dirty" dudes won't have anything to complain about.
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