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Whatís Next for 1/10 Losi off-road

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Whatís Next for 1/10 Losi off-road

Old 09-20-2023, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RC10Nick
if we're comparing TLR to past brands, another company who manufactured high end race kits, was bought out by a big conglomerate, had resources stripped to work on bashers, and suffered from severe parts availability problems comes to mind...
Are you referring to Kyosho? It sucks they only concentrate on bashers and 1/8 scale racers.

This is Kyosho's newest offering. How embarrassing!

https://youtu.be/4FygHdLK8Fg
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Old 09-20-2023, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by OffRoadJunkie
Are you referring to Kyosho? It sucks they only concentrate on bashers and 1/8 scale racers.

This is Kyosho's newest offering. How embarrassing!

https://youtu.be/4FygHdLK8Fg
Nah, I'm talking about Team Durango.
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Old 09-20-2023, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by RC10Nick
Nah, I'm talking about Team Durango.


Right! I forgot about them.
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Old 09-24-2023, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RC10Nick
Nah, I'm talking about Team Durango.
Gave me Flash backs when ya said Team Durango...every time i went to a big race with a Durango on the grid it felt like i was at a Gallagar Show...kits blowin up showering everyone with CVD pins and bulkheads...lol
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Old 09-24-2023, 02:31 PM
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Itíd be great if HH spent resources on TLR cars, but with RC in decline since the pandemic, and brands like Arrma outselling TLR easily 20:1, you really canít blame management for putting resources in areas that will be utilized.

The fact is bashing/crawling/drag is like 95% of the market and racing like 5%.
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Old 09-24-2023, 03:13 PM
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Sadly the industry at large is a big mess. The Manufacturers have it set up where they receive all the profit and nothing is left for Hobby/Pro shops to sustain on. The only shops that last are big E-commerce sites that can use quantity to off set the terrible margins. When i was ordering from Horizon etc etc the mark up on a kit was like 30 bucks.. If the tracks and pro shops cant stay open, people wont buy race kits..and have no choice but to buy some silly looking basher and bang it off curbs.

The manufacturers see that and think...Oh we need to build that! Which isnt the case. If they would support tracks and facilities the sales from track based platforms would Boom.
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Old 09-24-2023, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC
Itíd be great if HH spent resources on TLR cars, but with RC in decline since the pandemic, and brands like Arrma outselling TLR easily 20:1, you really canít blame management for putting resources in areas that will be utilized.

The fact is bashing/crawling/drag is like
95% of the market and racing like 5%.
I donít know, Razor - sure, I donít doubt that the Race segment is a loss leader, and sure, I have no doubt that crawlers and similar bashers make up a much larger market, but then I have to look at the fact that AE has released 3 updates to the B6 since the 6.2 was released in early 2020. Obviously, Thunder Tiger sees some value in keeping the AE products actively developed.

It honestly makes me wonder what will happen to the other top brands that HH has swallowed up these past few years.. Pro-Line (which already owned Protoform), AKA, now Trinity. The first two are odd, considering that they have been competitors for years. If theyíre not going to give the TLR group what it needs to compete with AE, then I donít know why they continue to be in the market at all. I mean, who knows? Maybe this is why we keep seeing them dedicate TLR resources to pump out one licensed Losi product after the other.
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Old 09-24-2023, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TurnNBurn
I donít know, Razor - sure, I donít doubt that the Race segment is a loss leader, and sure, I have no doubt that crawlers and similar bashers make up a much larger market, but then I have to look at the fact that AE has released 3 updates to the B6 since the 6.2 was released in early 2020. Obviously, Thunder Tiger sees some value in keeping the AE products actively developed.
Race kits are probably over half of sales for Associated, they are a race brand first and a basher (or other) brand second. So they have to keep doing race kits, that's what they're all about. But they're also pushing hard into the non-race segments, I think they put out more non-race kits than race kits this year.

It honestly makes me wonder what will happen to the other top brands that HH has swallowed up these past few years.. Pro-Line (which already owned Protoform), AKA, now Trinity. The first two are odd, considering that they have been competitors for years. If theyíre not going to give the TLR group what it needs to compete with AE, then I donít know why they continue to be in the market at all. I mean, who knows? Maybe this is why we keep seeing them dedicate TLR resources to pump out one licensed Losi product after the other.
Is TLR really in the market? SC/SCTE/T discontinued, 5.0 is on life support. They're not dead like Kyosho 1/10 is basically dead, but they're getting there. I think Horizon will always field a race team, but they're really not investing much in it. Fortunately cars haven't improved in leaps and bounds the last few years IMO, not like during the early 2010's when RM switched to MM and people were still figuring things out.
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Old 09-24-2023, 07:16 PM
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above all else, hh (like tt) is a distributor of a very wide range of products. acquiring additional parts of the supply chain for the various verticals they participate in is often a smart business practice. hh (again, like tt) acquired a 'racing' brand, then leveraged resources and rebranded/created divisions to fill non-racing segments (i.e. team losi vs. element) within those acquisitions. hh has, at least for the time being, seemed to exit competitive sc, again...just like tt exiting competitive on-road (1/10, 1/12, tc, and oval). does this make either less committed to success in the categories they still continue to develop and field teams for?

at least for the US market, tlr holds (what?) 4 of the 6 roar open 2w/4w/stadium off-road and carpet nats titles along with tq'ing and winning the 2w worlds recently. results speak for themselves. maybe some other brands should be putting in the development, funding, and resources to be as successful as tlr because (again, at least in the US), at the top level, tlr is the current results benchmark.

this lack of dedication, funding and commitment jibberish aside, it seems the biggest complaint is frequency of the tlr release cycle and getting in-development parts to market faster. from a consumer perspective, these are completely valid wants. my question, and i am not arguing either way in this, not so long ago ae and losi were praised for their (by today's standards) infrequent vehicle release cycles. in fact, people will recall that tamiya (for on-road) and xray used to be the subject of scorn for their release cycles as not being good for consumers or hobby shops. ae has seemingly changed course and embraced the annual'ish release cycle. maybe for another topic, but what is the 'sweet spot' for new/replacement vehicle launches: every x-months, when the mfg feels the product is ready, etc.?
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Old 09-24-2023, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hyjaxx9
Sadly the industry at large is a big mess. The Manufacturers have it set up where they receive all the profit and nothing is left for Hobby/Pro shops to sustain on. The only shops that last are big E-commerce sites that can use quantity to off set the terrible margins. When i was ordering from Horizon etc etc the mark up on a kit was like 30 bucks.. If the tracks and pro shops cant stay open, people wont buy race kits..and have no choice but to buy some silly looking basher and bang it off curbs.

The manufacturers see that and think...Oh we need to build that! Which isnt the case. If they would support tracks and facilities the sales from track based platforms would Boom.
You're right. There is razor thin margin for the regular hobby shop.
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Old 09-25-2023, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by gee-dub
at least for the US market, tlr holds (what?) 4 of the 6 roar open 2w/4w/stadium off-road and carpet nats titles along with tq'ing and winning the 2w worlds recently. results speak for themselves. maybe some other brands should be putting in the development, funding, and resources to be as successful as tlr because (again, at least in the US), at the top level, tlr is the current results benchmark.
Sadly in the UK and also much or Europe there are people who have come to racing in the last 5 years or so that quite probably have never seen a TLR car on track the level of support & visibility is so low.
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Old 09-25-2023, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RogerM
Sadly in the UK and also much or Europe there are people who have come to racing in the last 5 years or so that quite probably have never seen a TLR car on track the level of support & visibility is so low.
Take a look at the youtube channel Popalong RC. They're a UK based RC channel and recently got into buggy racing. One of them decided to get a TLR for the "exotic" factor and he's been having a terrible time with it. He can't get replacements for parts he's broken and he can't get the option parts he needs to get it running well on carpet. It's been a total disaster for him and he's already announced he's switching to the LD3 when it comes out. Can't blame him at all.

Meanwhile, Team Associated has sent B6.4's to other UK based RC youtubers for a low stakes "youtuber race."
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Last edited by RC10Nick; 09-25-2023 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 09-25-2023, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gee-dub
what is the 'sweet spot' for new/replacement vehicle launches: every x-months, when the mfg feels the product is ready, etc.?
When the kit requires different parts to perform at the top level.

It doesn't even need new box art, instruction manual, or big unveil. Frequent updates with a new bag of parts included would be fine. When you go this long without even having an easy access diff, or ballcuips with the tops drilled and using parts from other manufacturers cars, it's way too long.

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Old 09-25-2023, 02:05 PM
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Given how often their team drivers race and test, thereís really no other reason than ďwhen itís ready - now, because a company like AE tends to make running changes and repackages kits, itís not crazy to see those kits update every year to 18 months, as opposed to buying a kit and a growing number of optional parts. At least itís not an X-ray approach, where it seems like every other year, they redesign like half the cars, ďforcingĒ you to buy a new kit if you want to stay current.

This is why, despite all the people asking for a ď6.0Ē 22 kit, Iím not one if them. I donít think they need one. The buggy itself is still winning races with modified parts. Give us a ď5.1Ē with production versions of these parts that have been working so well, throw in an updated gearbox with easy diff access (itís currently like18 screws as opposed to 4-6), and while theyíre at it, bring out some new buggy springs that fill in the void that the AE springs seem to fill. After 4 years, itís not asking for much.

With as many team drivers running the 22X-4 arms for as long as they have, you would think that they would have created a mold for 22 5.0 arms that match the geometry of those already.
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Old 09-25-2023, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gee-dub
at least for the US market, tlr holds (what?) 4 of the 6 roar open 2w/4w/stadium off-road and carpet nats titles along with tq'ing and winning the 2w worlds recently. results speak for themselves. maybe some other brands should be putting in the development, funding, and resources to be as successful as tlr because (again, at least in the US), at the top level, tlr is the current results benchmark.

?
The question here is if this really counts. Historically AE has been the dominant brand. TLR has had a good run recently but are there many regions in the US are TLR dominated at the club level?
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