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Team Associated B6.4 and B6.4d

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Old 04-20-2022, 06:36 PM   -   Wikipost
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B6.3 / B6.3D and B6.4 / B6.4D Helpful Posts

B6.4 and B6.4D specific parts release list.
https://img2.associatedelectrics.com...Parts-List.pdf

Team Associated 1/10th Shock Length Quick Reference Chart
https://www.rctech.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=955

How to measure Shock Shafts
https://www.rctech.net/forum/showpos...&postcount=956

Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday and Roger M.): What is the difference between 2 gears and 4 gears in the gear diff?
Please read these posts by Roger M. Maybe this has been answered but what are the little orings in diff do for tuning?
Please read these posts by Roger M.
Information on the rear axles and the different length dog bones from Roger M.

The 0 (option) and +2 (kit) axles are for using different length driveshafts with the different arm lengths

Kit +2 axles

73mm arms wih 67mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 69mm driveshafts

Option 0 axles

73mm arms with 65mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 67mm driveshafts

Why would you want to change the driveshaft length?
It is essentially to do with the fact that a drive joint will want to run straight under power and the position of that joint (the pin through the CVA joint into the axle).
The further that CVA joint pin is inboard of the lower hub hingepin (assuming you're running fairly typical outer link positions) the more bind you will generate in the suspension as the drive joint tried to straighten under power, this extra binding will 'stiffen' the suspension as it adds load on top of that from the weight transfer on the car.
Conversely the the nearer the CVA joint pin is to lower hub hinge pin the less bind and thus freer suspension movement.

When would you want to change this?

Basically on bumpy tracks, tracks with inconsistent grip or lower grip you want the suspension to be as free to move as possible so that you get the full benefit from the shock and roll centre tuning, also the car feels like it has more grip in the areas where you go on/off/on the gas.
To this end you will be running the longest possible dog bone you can for the arm length, hence why the +2 axles are in the kit.

On smooth super high grip tracks (EOS / CRC carpet for example) running a shorter dogbone will feel like it takes grip away from the rear as you get on power, aiding late corner rotation and reducing the on-power understeer that often plagues tight carpet tracks.
The only time I would run the 0 axles is with 67mm dogbones on 75mm arms and only then when I wish I could get let rear toe than the 1deg minimum we can get from the pills we have (actually I had custom pill made so I can get 0deg rear toe for those types of tracks but ...)

What are the handling differences between the 73 and 75mm arms.
Brief explanation from RogerM (thanks!)

The arm length effects the roll centre and more significantly the roll centre migration as the car rolls in the corners.

Shorter rear arms will encourage more tire loading so more grip as the car rolls, great for lower grip surfaces but on high grip surfaces they can stall the rotation mid corner costing corner speed. They can also make the car feel more reactive which is good when a low grip level makes the car feel less reactive so making it harder to place in technical sections.

Long rear arms the opposite, car will rotate more freely for more corner speed but won't generate as much side-bite so mid/late corner will be reduced. Make the car feel naturally lazier which is great on high grip surfaces as it makes the car easier to drive overall.

So the long Vs short rear arm is just like the flat Vs gullwing front arm, all about the grip level from the surface and how technical the track layout is.




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Old 03-15-2023, 12:00 PM
  #766  
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Originally Posted by ollie 45 View Post
Thanks for your reply,
On my stadium truck it is traction rolling or "jacking" i believe there is too much transfer to the front outside. Buggy is pretty good but just wondered what the change would do, i don't get much practice time so need to do homework before hitting the track.
Just looking for ways to change roll centers if need be besides adding or removing washers under ballstuds.
No experience of trucks but on buggies the trend has been raising the inner link height and lengthening them to calm things down and reduce camber gain.

Hopefully somebody with more experience will be along soon.
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Old 03-16-2023, 08:40 AM
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On ST my solution to traction roll has been ride height. I was never able to get under 20mm until I put the 13mm shocks on. Now Im at 16mm with the body off.

Check out this thread for more truck questions:

Team Associated T6.2
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Old 03-17-2023, 01:34 PM
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I'm on the fence about upgrading my turnbuckles to the nicer titanium ones. Do the stock ones get bent a lot? Some of the Ti ones still have the smaller diameter thread and some have a larger thread where you have to drill out the tierod end. Do the upgrades with the smaller threads still bend a lot. Do the stiffer turnbuckles just transfer more load and start breaking other stuff? What's the optimum turnbuckle option to run?
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Old 03-17-2023, 01:58 PM
  #769  
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Originally Posted by LowDrag View Post
I'm on the fence about upgrading my turnbuckles to the nicer titanium ones. Do the stock ones get bent a lot? Some of the Ti ones still have the smaller diameter thread and some have a larger thread where you have to drill out the tierod end. Do the upgrades with the smaller threads still bend a lot. Do the stiffer turnbuckles just transfer more load and start breaking other stuff? What's the optimum turnbuckle option to run?
I raced my B6.4 carpet car every Tuesday night for about a year. I bent exactly ZERO stock turnbuckles in that time.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:11 PM
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Hello,

I have just purchased and trying to build and RC10B6.4.
The part that looks like the connector from Bag #2 is plastic with holes in each end. They aren't ball cups, just a hole that doesn't look like it's big enough. Am I using the correct part to connect the front roll bar to the front arms in Bag #2 Step 7?

They aren't a ball cup and I can't seem to make them go into the balls and have damaged one trying to make it fit.
Any help on this would be appreciated.

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Old 03-17-2023, 08:37 PM
  #771  
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Originally Posted by LowDrag View Post
I'm on the fence about upgrading my turnbuckles to the nicer titanium ones. Do the stock ones get bent a lot? Some of the Ti ones still have the smaller diameter thread and some have a larger thread where you have to drill out the tierod end. Do the upgrades with the smaller threads still bend a lot. Do the stiffer turnbuckles just transfer more load and start breaking other stuff? What's the optimum turnbuckle option to run?
The best thing to do is get some Ti 3.5mm turnbuckles, they are pretty popular now that AE made 3.5mm ballcups that dont stretch and put them on the B74.2.

I built my 6.4 months ago with yokomo ballcups because they dont slop out in 2 weeks like 3mm AE ballcups, but they are brittle and I've broken a few. I have tweaked/lightly bent turnbuckles as well but I run mod classes on very high grip surfaces. Overall they're very durable and you don't have to worry too much about it.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wockaf1 View Post
Hello,

I have just purchased and trying to build and RC10B6.4.
The part that looks like the connector from Bag #2 is plastic with holes in each end. They aren't ball cups, just a hole that doesn't look like it's big enough. Am I using the correct part to connect the front roll bar to the front arms in Bag #2 Step 7?

They aren't a ball cup and I can't seem to make them go into the balls and have damaged one trying to make it fit.
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Probably, if you correctly follow the directions and you have spare parts they are not needed for the box stock setup. If you build a gear diff you'll also have 2 bearings left over that would go in a ball diff. You can always look a head and see how things go together. And if youre on a certain step, use exactly as the illustrations show. Close enough is not correct. The sway bar parts only fit the sway bar and ball cups only fit the proper ballstuds. Its very specific.
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Old 03-17-2023, 10:51 PM
  #773  
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Originally Posted by wockaf1 View Post
Hello,

I have just purchased and trying to build and RC10B6.4.
The part that looks like the connector from Bag #2 is plastic with holes in each end. They aren't ball cups, just a hole that doesn't look like it's big enough. Am I using the correct part to connect the front roll bar to the front arms in Bag #2 Step 7?

They aren't a ball cup and I can't seem to make them go into the balls and have damaged one trying to make it fit.
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Sounds like you might have found the spacers to move the servo back , a photo might help.
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Old 03-18-2023, 03:21 PM
  #774  
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Thank you for the responses.
I found a YouTube video that says the sway bar "ball links" are in Bag #9 and they were with all the other turnbuckles.

What happens now that the sway bar is connected is that the front arms don't droop below the chassis line (without shocks pushing them down which I haven't built as yet). Is this normal. I took it all apart again and don't see any binding.
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Old 03-18-2023, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexv2024 View Post
The best thing to do is get some Ti 3.5mm turnbuckles, they are pretty popular now that AE made 3.5mm ballcups that dont stretch and put them on the B74.2.

I built my 6.4 months ago with yokomo ballcups because they dont slop out in 2 weeks like 3mm AE ballcups, but they are brittle and I've broken a few. I have tweaked/lightly bent turnbuckles as well but I run mod classes on very high grip surfaces. Overall they're very durable and you don't have to worry too much about it.
I managed to bend two in two days (one minor, one catastrophic). I'm not a great driver and the slight bend came from shooting off the track. The second was the result of a full-speed impact from the rear after I flipped over a jump. Still, they seemed less strong than the ones on my old TLR 22 3.0 SR. Since I needed to replace my B6.4 ones, I opted for the Factory Team titanium 3.5mm turnbuckles and the 3.5mm ball cups from the B74. Major upgrade in strength.
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Old 03-18-2023, 07:22 PM
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Can anyone compare this to the 22 5.0 elite for clay? It seems like this car is better but everyone has quite the amount of upgrades. Is it any good in stock kit form?
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Old 03-18-2023, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by LowDrag View Post
I'm on the fence about upgrading my turnbuckles to the nicer titanium ones. Do the stock ones get bent a lot? Some of the Ti ones still have the smaller diameter thread and some have a larger thread where you have to drill out the tierod end. Do the upgrades with the smaller threads still bend a lot. Do the stiffer turnbuckles just transfer more load and start breaking other stuff? What's the optimum turnbuckle option to run?
I use 3.5mm Lunsford turnbuckles with b74.2 ball ends, and I have the FT +2 rear camber link mount to add strength in the rear. In the front Id rather blow apart the stock top plate if I have a bad wreck.
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Old 03-18-2023, 08:50 PM
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I went with the jconcepts turnbuckles and the b74.2 ball cups straight away. I did it for appearance purposes only, but if you don’t hit anything you won’t have to worry about it. If you do hit stuff the stock turnbuckles might bend and the ti ones might break.
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Old 03-19-2023, 08:05 AM
  #779  
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Originally Posted by LowDrag View Post
I'm on the fence about upgrading my turnbuckles to the nicer titanium ones. Do the stock ones get bent a lot? Some of the Ti ones still have the smaller diameter thread and some have a larger thread where you have to drill out the tierod end. Do the upgrades with the smaller threads still bend a lot. Do the stiffer turnbuckles just transfer more load and start breaking other stuff? What's the optimum turnbuckle option to run?
It's not stiffness. It's the ratio of strength to weight with some added appearance.

I prefer the 1up ones as their flat holds the wrench and tells you which way to turn it to make them shorter or longer. I've bent one and they warrantied it.

Lunsford was awesome when they were around, Probably the strongest of them all.
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Old 03-19-2023, 08:46 AM
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It can depend on the track, keep in mind this is between a box stock 6.4d and a pretty well decked out 22 5.0 with the same setup for both on both tracks. On a medium grip track (Hobby Action in Chandler, Az) while my 22 was very nimble I had to be careful not to drive it too hard as it didn't feel as planted as I like. The B6.4 was very forgiving though a bit pushy but after a couple of packs I was about a second faster a lap than my 22 and on par with the faster 17.5 guys at the track. At a sealed clay track (Coyote Hobbies in Victorville, Ca, gobs of traction) the B6.4 was extremely pushy and very hard to rotate, not fun lol My 22 was amazing, almost telepathic lol Now, the next time I went to Coyote I changed the the shocks, springs and caster settings from a Matty G setup sheet for SDRC and that helped quite a bit though the B6.4 still pushed a decent amount on power. More setup work to do but since I have no local track and the closest (Coyote) is 3 hours away, I can't test setup changes as much as I'd like.


Originally Posted by D1Rk View Post
Can anyone compare this to the 22 5.0 elite for clay? It seems like this car is better but everyone has quite the amount of upgrades. Is it any good in stock kit form?
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