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17.5 tips and tricks

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17.5 tips and tricks

Old 02-25-2020, 03:55 PM
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Default 17.5 tips and tricks

Iíve dabbled in stock buggy off and on for years. Always felt like Iím at a huge disadvantage power wise even running the latest motor, 8.7v charging and low ir battery combo. Cut gears, ceramic bearings etc. only thing I havenít tried is 40 amp charging. At my current track the fast guys have a huge advantage on motor. Not just to speed but punch. Theyíre able to clear a short run up triple that only mod buggy can clear. I donít know if theyíre cheating, but thereís no tech. So how are the rest of us supposed to compete? I find it hard to believe that 40a charging makes a 17.5 run like a 13.5
So what are the tips and tricks that will get me to the front of the pack? And itís not driving. I run with the fastest 13.5 wheeler guy lap for lap, but in stock heís over 1 second a lap faster.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:00 PM
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What motor are you running? Some of the new 17.5 motors really rip. Like the trinity X factor, R1, etc.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:05 PM
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You say short run before a triple, corner speed is huge momentum getting over some jumps. Also low IRs on your batterys help.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:53 PM
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High amperage discharging is what makes a noticeable difference for a stock racer with strong batteries. This discharging heats up the packs from within which lowers the resistance significantly. After it has been discharged then they start charging with a high amperage and that combination causes the batteries to feel much stronger.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:51 PM
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A good 17.5 does wonders...I donít high amp
charge my batts but I run a icon torque from fantom and itís a power house...it comes off cool as can be also....
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Old 02-25-2020, 08:02 PM
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I think another part of it is what compromises you're willing to make in terms of longevity of your motor. If you gear & time to the moon, you'll have more power, but the motor will run hotter. I think some of the fast guys just count on replacing motors every 6 months or so. Personally I know that there's far more room for improvement in my driving, so would rather keep a good safety margin in my setup & expect to get a couple of years (only running during the winter) out of my motors.
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Old 02-25-2020, 09:26 PM
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:49 PM
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I charge at 20a most days, and cycle at 40/40 when things get serious, but I do well. New packs that stay under 2ohm/cell with 20a charging should be plenty competitive. 20 vs 40 and cycling is a nice difference but not what you're seeing.

Honestly tires and driving is the biggest followed by setup.

I don't even have the cut gears or a slipper eliminator or super fancy stuff. Just Pilot rc ceramic bearings (They are super free and absurdly tough, all of mine are 8+ months old). You do need to have your particular motor figured out gearing and timing wise. I love my Fantom stuff, and the owner personally has tweaked mine at the big events hes been at. They will also pre set it 95% of the way when you order it as you tell them what you're putting it in.

But focus on good tires setup and driving. When you have more grip you carry more corner speed and stay higher rpms to clear jumps easier. Even if you have mod poor driving will get beat by the same fast stock guys.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:33 AM
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At the turf club in our area, the lap times on 17.5 are comparable with 13.5, not uncommon to see the classes mixed and for many 17.5 cars out pace some of the 13.5's.... even down the front straight!

Don't underestimate 40A cycling... the key is to use a discharge bank and dump the pack before you charge it, and timing is everything, you want to cycle it no more than 10 min before your race to get the best results. Lately they haven't been teching and I suspect a fair amount of cheating as well, I know as a fact that some drivers are charging to 4.35V/cell and not running blinky... even the faster 13.5's are on pace with many mod cars!

I've grown to appreciate Mod 4WD SCT and Mod 4WD Mini Truggy on the dirt track (the club hosts both dirt and turf at the same facility)... the Mod field is more level with way closer racing than the stock classes, go figure???
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
At the turf club in our area, the lap times on 17.5 are comparable with 13.5, not uncommon to see the classes mixed and for many 17.5 cars out pace some of the 13.5's.... even down the front straight!

Don't underestimate 40A cycling... the key is to use a discharge bank and dump the pack before you charge it, and timing is everything, you want to cycle it no more than 10 min before your race to get the best results.
This is exaclty why stock class has become the most difficult class to be a top driver at. Specially hard for beginners. Cheating is justified with "everyone does it, so I have to do it to be competitive" or "there's no tech". I've seen plenty of ESCs out of blinking. Really frustrating. The good thing is that most people cheating at club level is just to make up for poor driving, so it eventually catches up to them and they crash

I don't do any of the "tricks" to get more speed or whatever. All I do is work on my driving, setup and new tires every meeting. I'm not the fastest guy, but I'm happy knowing that I can compete without needing tricks.
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Old 02-26-2020, 07:41 AM
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Hi guys; from the UK and genuinely intrigued, so please donít shoot me down, Iím not here for flaming.

So...all these stock classes...I donít get it. My understanding of stock was always that it was an entry level class in terms of cost. But with constantly searching for the best motor and only using it for six months, cooking lipos and reducing their life, ceramic titanium cut down everything...itís crazy. Waaayyy more expensive than Mod.

In the UK pretty much everyone runs mod. A new guy/kid might buy a slower motor while they learn (or at least they should!) but the racing is simple; in every class itís mod. We get 30-50 cars on a club night (fortnightly on a huge carpet track, a lot of features, 1066 Racing on FB) all 2WD mod, occasionally a heat of 4WD mod. 5 finals, A-E.

Are all the extra classes just so everyone gets a trophy? IĎm not so fussed about a trophy. I won the B final last week from 6th on the grid and was really stoked. Iíd be even more stoked if I scraped the back of the A! 😂

Serious questions then, is it trophies? Is it that the regs a throwback to brushed days and just need someone to look at it with fresh eyes? Why donít more people step Ďupí to way cheaper mod?

Thanks in advance
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewcoley View Post
Hi guys; from the UK and genuinely intrigued, so please donít shoot me down, Iím not here for flaming.

So...all these stock classes...I donít get it. My understanding of stock was always that it was an entry level class in terms of cost. But with constantly searching for the best motor and only using it for six months, cooking lipos and reducing their life, ceramic titanium cut down everything...itís crazy. Waaayyy more expensive than Mod.

In the UK pretty much everyone runs mod. A new guy/kid might buy a slower motor while they learn (or at least they should!) but the racing is simple; in every class itís mod. We get 30-50 cars on a club night (fortnightly on a huge carpet track, a lot of features, 1066 Racing on FB) all 2WD mod, occasionally a heat of 4WD mod. 5 finals, A-E.

Are all the extra classes just so everyone gets a trophy? IĎm not so fussed about a trophy. I won the B final last week from 6th on the grid and was really stoked. Iíd be even more stoked if I scraped the back of the A! 😂

Serious questions then, is it trophies? Is it that the regs a throwback to brushed days and just need someone to look at it with fresh eyes? Why donít more people step Ďupí to way cheaper mod?

Thanks in advance
As someone from the UK now living in North America, it's a bit of the trophies thing. It's also my experience that many of the club tracks here are smaller, so a mod car really is a bit overpowered. A lot of the time even the fast guys in mod look to be 'driving between corners' rather than carrying any semblance of speed around the track.

There's a few guys at our club that do the 40A charge thing, but most of us don't, & we still have just as much fun.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:11 AM
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I was the one who pushed hard to get a 13.5 stock going at the club in our area about 5 years ago... it used to be that Mod was for the experts and Stock was for Sportsman with the idea that slower stock cars would be less likely to break, less tire wear... hence being less expensive, etc.

Fast forward to the age of pushing the limits with every imaginable thing to increase speed/performance we are now seeing that the gap is very close between mod and stock, plus the mod classes died off because many of the Expert drivers started to sand bag and have been running with the Sportsman drivers in Stock.... some were forced to make the switch simply because not enough Mod entries would show up nearly as consistently.

Diluting classes is not sustainable, I agree that the Stock program has evolved to the point where the time has come to abandon it. There is a much better way to "increase trophy count", for club racing that is typically just a podium pic. The club in my area will typically put the top 3 drivers on the podium, however if there are lower mains, then they take the top 5 drivers. I don't agree with this concept, I feel that each division on mains should be treated as separate award division such that the top 3 of each group get awards.... so where you qualify is where you are ranked, then no bumps in the main... instead of only 5 drivers getting podium pics for group that may go down to a D Main, would instead be top 3 x 4 = 12 drivers in podium pics.... this gives the opportunity to see more people on the podium and a more diverse grouping.
#EndStockRacing

Last edited by billdelong; 02-26-2020 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
Diluting classes is not sustainable, I agree that the Stock program has evolved to the point where the time has come to abandon it.
#EndStockRacing
Totally agree, and time to go back to the way it used to be with A thru Z mains. At my local off road track there is now mod, 21.5 and 17.5 2wd buggy, along with a separation of sportsman and expert. Just ridiculous.
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Old 02-26-2020, 08:58 AM
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If it's a short run up, are you getting up to speed fast enough? Dropping a tooth or two on your pinion will give you more punch out of the corner.
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