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17.5 tips and tricks

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17.5 tips and tricks

Old 02-29-2020, 12:23 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by andrewcoley View Post
...sandbagging to get in a non pro class to win a trophy at a club RC car race. (Insert crying smiley)
This happens with alarming frequency. I've seen it at every track that I've ever spent any time to some degree or another for 30 years, RC and slots.
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Old 02-29-2020, 01:42 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
1st point, are the guys you asked sponsored? If so, call their sponsors and tell them how your questions were received. Name names.

2nd point, thatís a 1 strike = out issue. You caught him deliberately cheating, he shouldíve been shown the door with zero tolerance. Treat cheaters this way and it stops in a hurry. Again, if heís sponsored, call he sponsors and shame him and them publicly. ďHeís a cheater and brand xxx supports cheating and cheatersĒ. Work that into the track communityís culture and the cheaters either stop or they leave.
He hadnít technically cheated at that point. I was checking before the race. If I was going to throw him out for that I would have thrown out half the racers there for violating the voltage rule. He was the extreme case. Most were 8.43 to 8.46. They had to pull trigger and get below the limit before they could run that round. I also had to make them turn off their radios when checking blinks mode on esc. At the time there were some escs that would show blinky mode when the brake was pushed on the radio. But they werenít actually in blinky mode.

I realize itís human nature to push the limits of rules. But why even have rules if thereís no one checking compliance? Track owners donít seem to want to police it. They have their loyal racers and want to keep them happy. If that means looking the other way then some will do it all day. But it really screws the guys that are trying to learn stock racing and stay legal.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:07 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Homer723 View Post
.......But it really screws the guys that are trying to learn stock racing and stay legal.
Sadly, most will never get this simple concept.
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Old 02-29-2020, 03:59 PM
  #34  
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Crazy cheating on top of crazy cost. Biggest issue for this sport IMHO is getting new people to join. The less barriers the better, and a ridiculous Ďentryí class where everything is ultra expensive is the TOTAL OPPOSITE of what the sport needs.
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:19 PM
  #35  
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The guys that are cheating arenít necessarily bad guys. Itís the desire to win at all costs that causes it. I had a friend I had known for years that dominated stock racing locally. No one ever questioned him because no one would ever believe he would cheat. Great guy. Everyone liked him. Fast forward and I get his stock motor in a trade. Before I even ran it I opened it up. Mod rotor. I questioned him about it and he said yeh he had been cheating. I would have bet my paycheck that he would never do that but competition drives some people to extremes.

I have a Tekin r 13.5 that I use for practice in my wheeler. It has a 13mm mod torque rotor in it. Itís stupid fast. I could never get away with running it in a race. I can gear it to the moon and it just gets faster and doesnít run hot. Thatís basically what the outlaw stock motors are doing. High kv stator and big rotor and itís a beast.

There were rumors a few years ago about hacked firmware for the Orion esc that always showed blinky mode even when timing was dialed in. Idk if itís true but doesnít seem like it would be hard to do.

Last edited by Homer723; 02-29-2020 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 02-29-2020, 04:37 PM
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There really needs to be a stepping stone class for people. My son just moved out of novice, and the next step up is stock 17.5 buggy. He went from dominating novice to last in stock. Heís asked me several times to go back to novice and I wonít let him. Heíll never get better in that class. But there should be something in-between. 25.5 or 21.5 buggy would be great, but thereís no interest at our track.
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Old 02-29-2020, 05:00 PM
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As a former track builder 21.5 is a huge PITA.

I've seen it run a few times at different places, and its truly frustrating as a driver (haven't driven it, but understand that and talk to drivers) that you can't make hardly any jumps and to accommodate for that really can make it difficult for a nice flowing layout for other classes especially if you have mod classes. Also if you just waved a wand and said stock is now 21.5 or 19.5 or whatever, now everyone has to buy new motors, and with less power cut gears and any light parts become more noticeable. So someone like me that only has ceramic bearings now has to buy a motor ($50-150) and cut gears and aluminum driveshafts and and and and.....how does that help?

As for making jumps for 21.5 Its no fun to fly over a jump flat land and flip (with a 17.5 or mod), just like having to single over a triple. Plus the guys that cheat in 17.5 are going to in any other stock classes. Only kicking them out (bad for track/hobby) or kicking them to mod classes eliminates the problem.

Unless the guy cheating is getting on the podium does it matter? It just shows that they are crappy people because they cheat at toy cars. I do well myself and have been getting on the podium in a competitive area and it sucks to see guys cheat. But I know I don't and most people don't.

YOU JUST HAVE TO REMEMBER TO HAVE FUN!!! I'm competitive and enjoy doing well, and I still have plenty of bad days where electronics trip me up or a bunch of broken parts or marshals or whatever. All those are way bigger issues than cheaters usually. But I always remind myself I'm at the track to have fun, hang out with my friends and experience racing while I build my real cars. And I've found that having an attitude reduces the pressure and lets me drive better, making the race day better.

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Old 02-29-2020, 05:08 PM
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Plus if you say have a 17.5 blinky class at a club race, and there's rampant cheating but no tech.............Is it really cheating?

If cheating is really that bad and ruining it for everyone, then start teching. Check weight, make sure the motor matches the class and has a stock rotor in it (as in a stock spec not for modified rotor) and check your battery voltage. Id shoot for 8.44v, as that gives the guys with cheap chargers wiggle room and the guys searching for .04v at a club race feel like they are getting something (But they aren't since they still hit pipes)

Either do it before each heat or the last round of qualifying and mains.....or whatever you have man power for.

Sometimes at club races I run crappy older packs and charge them to 8.7v so I still have similar power to my better packs. But we don't tech and I know other guys charge at high volts too. But theres no tech so it doesn't matter.

So either Tech at your track or push the cheaters to open classes or punch them in the face. Either way just ignore everyone else (within reason) don't hack other people and have fun!
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Old 02-29-2020, 05:39 PM
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The counter argument to being outclassed at the next level up is the total lack of classes at our club.

So you start, youíre in heat one, youíre terrible. And slowly you move up the heats, and from the E, to the D, and then the C final etc, and add onto that that kids learn so fast they fly up the finals! So youíre always progressing.

Youíd probably hit a wall if you went national, but who wouldnít?
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Old 02-29-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexv2024 View Post
Plus if you say have a 17.5 blinky class at a club race, and there's rampant cheating but no tech.............Is it really cheating?

If cheating is really that bad and ruining it for everyone, then start teching. Check weight, make sure the motor matches the class and has a stock rotor in it (as in a stock spec not for modified rotor) and check your battery voltage. Id shoot for 8.44v, as that gives the guys with cheap chargers wiggle room and the guys searching for .04v at a club race feel like they are getting something (But they aren't since they still hit pipes)

Either do it before each heat or the last round of qualifying and mains.....or whatever you have man power for.

Sometimes at club races I run crappy older packs and charge them to 8.7v so I still have similar power to my better packs. But we don't tech and I know other guys charge at high volts too. But theres no tech so it doesn't matter.

So either Tech at your track or push the cheaters to open classes or punch them in the face. Either way just ignore everyone else (within reason) don't hack other people and have fun!
Cheating isnít ruining it for the guys that are cheating. Itís ruining it for the guys that get into stock, spend $150 on a motor, and then realize theyíre not in the same league as the fast guys. Another $500 on a charger/discharger/power supply setup and theyíre still getting motored. At some point the light bulb goes on and theyíre pissed. They either quit or cheat.

And itís not like any Joe can show up at the track and start teching people. He needs the permission and backing of the rd/track owner. Someone has to have his back. Most tracks donít want to rock the boat so itíll never happen.
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Old 02-29-2020, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Homer723 View Post
He hadnít technically cheated at that point. I was checking before the race. If I was going to throw him out for that I would have thrown out half the racers there for violating the voltage rule. He was the extreme case. Most were 8.43 to 8.46. .
I don't know what threshold was set (there should be one). A couple hundredths could be from the cells bing a little warm. A couple tenths is deliberate. That cannot happen by accident. He cheated by showing up at that voltage. You caught him. He should've been DQ'd.

Originally Posted by Homer723 View Post
The guys that are cheating arenít necessarily bad guys.
.
If they're cheating in an environment where others are trying to be competitive by the book, they are bad guys. Just because they're personable doesn't change this. If you want a healthy track community, the hard choice to run out these "popular cheaters" must be made. For every one of these guys a director accommodates, there's 5 would be racers who've been driven away by them.
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Old 02-29-2020, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rcgod View Post
Cheating isnít ruining it for the guys that are cheating. Itís ruining it for the guys that get into stock, spend $150 on a motor, and then realize theyíre not in the same league as the fast guys. Another $500 on a charger/discharger/power supply setup and theyíre still getting motored. At some point the light bulb goes on and theyíre pissed. They either quit or cheat.

And itís not like any Joe can show up at the track and start teching people. He needs the permission and backing of the rd/track owner. Someone has to have his back. Most tracks donít want to rock the boat so itíll never happen.
I know exactly who its hurting when guys cheat. I've been at a big race that every other track in the series had tech and this one didn't. Guys in the amain definitely cheated. Also trinity had their motor builder show up and build like 12 motors for one guy. Im sure all would pass roar tech (sarcasm). I also club race every weekend almost all year, so when it seems like someones cheating it sucks too.

But if cheating is an issue at your track, then get a bunch of guys together and approach the track owner. Most owners I know would probably go for it or do something about it, but Im sure there are some that wont.

I've also seen guys that seem like they have way more power than they should, and I drive their cars or try their line or get my car better and I can do the same thing. There are also plenty of guys that burn money to go fast that make 5 mistakes a heat. Discharging at 40a wont fix your wrecks that's actually hurting you.

Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
I don't know what threshold was set (there should be one). A couple hundredths could be from the cells bing a little warm. A couple tenths is deliberate. That cannot happen by accident. He cheated by showing up at that voltage. You caught him. He should've been DQ'd.
Roar says 8.40v nothing more. The old accepted was 8.44 since rounding would put that at 8.40. So I'd pick one of those and stick to it zero tolerance. I was DQ'd at a masters of dirt because I asked the guy next to me to check a pack while I raced. I didn't recheck the pack when he said it was charged. It was 8.42 I think. It was awful but can't make exceptions for mains. Id say 8.44 for club racing just to give some wiggle room to guys with bad chargers.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:09 AM
  #43  
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Last edited by zipperfoot; 05-01-2020 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 03-02-2020, 06:38 AM
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The local club in my area hasn't tech'd since last summer when turnout was significantly higher, I think they only tech when there are lower mains and/or people start complaining.... I'll walk down the pit room and glance at the chargers, most are set to 4.22V/cell but there are several guys set to 4.35V/cell, I explain that is not allowed and they quickly "thank" me, but they refuse to change their charger settings. Same guys also vape in the pit room when I explain that isn't allowed either... simply put, people will break rules when there is no enforcement... same goes for racing, if the RD makes a bunch of empty threats and doesn't enforce dirty driving, then they are only "promoting a hack fest"... shrug

We used to have a really good RD but he got into a bad auto accident and broke his neck, he has a long road to recovery and may come back to RD regularly for us again, what I miss the most was how good of a job he did with enforcing clean racing, that is hard to come by!
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Old 03-02-2020, 07:47 AM
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I read this and then go away and come back later then read some more and this gets the better of me, so now I am back with my opinion as cheating is still cheating whether its motor esc or battery voltage it still comes down to it, and its up to us racers to police this and if they tell you what battery voltage is then someone needs to step up and do a quick check and we can all assume we are in blinky but you know how easy that is to change now a days, so have the RD call a audible and pull top 3 or 4 guys in after the run and check and if they go back to their table DQ them for that run, simple yet effective and anyone can check voltage and look to see if the esc is blinking or not, as I have raced others with higher voltage and I will say they will motor you down the straight and always have better voltage at the end of the run, so my opinion is if your going to cheat then you will get caught, then you get labeled a freaking cheater and scrutinize with everything you do, good or bad and if winning means that much then have at it as some of us still go to have FUN, and I enjoy the guys and gals that race around me and the cheaters not so much.
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