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AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread

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Old 10-30-2020, 02:57 PM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread
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Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday and Roger M.): What is the difference between 2 gears and 4 gears in the gear diff?
Please read these posts by Roger M. Maybe this has been answered but what are the little orings in diff do for tuning?
Please read these posts by Roger M.
Information on the rear axles and the different length dog bones from Roger M.

The 0 (option) and +2 (kit) axles are for using different length driveshafts with the different arm lengths

Kit +2 axles

73mm arms wih 67mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 69mm driveshafts

Option 0 axles

73mm arms with 65mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 67mm driveshafts

Why would you want to change the driveshaft length?
It is essentially to do with the fact that a drive joint will want to run straight under power and the position of that joint (the pin through the CVA joint into the axle).
The further that CVA joint pin is inboard of the lower hub hingepin (assuming you're running fairly typical outer link positions) the more bind you will generate in the suspension as the drive joint tried to straighten under power, this extra binding will 'stiffen' the suspension as it adds load on top of that from the weight transfer on the car.
Conversely the the nearer the CVA joint pin is to lower hub hinge pin the less bind and thus freer suspension movement.

When would you want to change this?

Basically on bumpy tracks, tracks with inconsistent grip or lower grip you want the suspension to be as free to move as possible so that you get the full benefit from the shock and roll centre tuning, also the car feels like it has more grip in the areas where you go on/off/on the gas.
To this end you will be running the longest possible dog bone you can for the arm length, hence why the +2 axles are in the kit.

On smooth super high grip tracks (EOS / CRC carpet for example) running a shorter dogbone will feel like it takes grip away from the rear as you get on power, aiding late corner rotation and reducing the on-power understeer that often plagues tight carpet tracks.
The only time I would run the 0 axles is with 67mm dogbones on 75mm arms and only then when I wish I could get let rear toe than the 1deg minimum we can get from the pills we have (actually I had custom pill made so I can get 0deg rear toe for those types of tracks but ...)

What are the handling differences between the 73 and 75mm arms.
Brief explanation from RogerM (thanks!)

The arm length effects the roll centre and more significantly the roll centre migration as the car rolls in the corners.

Shorter rear arms will encourage more tire loading so more grip as the car rolls, great for lower grip surfaces but on high grip surfaces they can stall the rotation mid corner costing corner speed. They can also make the car feel more reactive which is good when a low grip level makes the car feel less reactive so making it harder to place in technical sections.

Long rear arms the opposite, car will rotate more freely for more corner speed but won't generate as much side-bite so mid/late corner will be reduced. Make the car feel naturally lazier which is great on high grip surfaces as it makes the car easier to drive overall.

So the long Vs short rear arm is just like the flat Vs gullwing front arm, all about the grip level from the surface and how technical the track layout is.




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Old 01-14-2020, 12:37 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Losiracer12
Except they are not prototype arms on his nationals car,they are B74 arms shaved 2mm forward,the hubs are stock B6.1 aluminum hubs with prototype 69mm bones. It’s the other details unfortunately they are hiding and everyone on this forum and all of their customers have a right to know what they are
How do you know this information? If you personally saw these cars... what stopped you from asking the team drivers? .. just curious.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:06 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Losiracer12
some of the public might just be very good drivers themselves that want the same car that is actually being used to win the races to compete better at the level
I don't think you are going to find the answer you are looking for here. I highly recommend calling them and asking them the questions you have asked us here. Here is the contact information.
Call
Toll Free: (855) 721-0266
Local/International: (949) 544-7500
7:30am-4:00pm Monday-Thursday
Closed during lunch hours from 11:45am-1:00pm

Kit Service email address: [email protected] Subject: Kit Service
Other AE Support email address: [email protected] Subject: Other AE Support

There are other ways to reach them too and they can be found on their contact page.
https://www.associatedelectrics.com/contact/

Now please excuse me while I go ask Frank why their team drivers are running a car that I can't buy.


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Old 01-14-2020, 01:41 PM
  #93  
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Last edited by zipperfoot; 02-11-2020 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:53 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Kraig
I don't think you are going to find the answer you are looking for here. I highly recommend calling them and asking them the questions you have asked us here. Here is the contact information.
Call
Toll Free: (855) 721-0266
Local/International: (949) 544-7500
7:30am-4:00pm Monday-Thursday
Closed during lunch hours from 11:45am-1:00pm

Kit Service email address: [email protected] Subject: Kit Service
Other AE Support email address: [email protected] Subject: Other AE Support

There are other ways to reach them too and they can be found on their contact page.
https://www.associatedelectrics.com/contact/

Now please excuse me while I go ask Frank why their team drivers are running a car that I can't buy.
LOL
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:36 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
I would encourage them to spend their money, that's what keeps this hobby alive.

BTW, I would never comment or make any suggestions to guys like that. Whatever I say they already know ... RC egos and attitude run deep.
In my case... when I beat them over and over again ... they start asking me for setups. LOL
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:30 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
In years past I have had pros drive my buggies for fun. I can confidently say it's not the buggy it's the driver.

If there is a pro using a one-off part that we can't buy, I am guessing the pro level driver is able to use it to their advantage due to their driving style and skill level.

Besides if there were some secret parts that only the pros used and it made the buggy faster, the manufacturer would be crazy not to release it to the public. If their buggies are faster than the competition, they sell more buggies.

Interesting topic though.

I was practicing last weekend with a bunch of guys using all the latest and greatest. Saucing, tire warmers, iChargers, cycling batteries, Oggio bags, the whole nine yards. They had it all. To be honest in my opinion their lap times and consistancy did not reflect their level of equipment. I guess it is a phenomenon. The urge for the latest and greatest is no different than wanting parts the public can't buy. It must be better and it will make you a better driver because it's unobtainable.
^ This
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:32 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
I was practicing last weekend with a bunch of guys using all the latest and greatest. Saucing, tire warmers, iChargers, cycling batteries, Oggio bags, the whole nine yards. They had it all. To be honest in my opinion their lap times and consistancy did not reflect their level of equipment. I guess it is a phenomenon.
Why would you ever criticize someone for how much money they spend on their "for fun" hobby? That might be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If it makes them happy, then who cares? Didn't realize we need to get our equipment approved by other people before we're allowed to buy it.

Honestly, if a guy is surprised the 22X-4 doesn't come with a servo saver, maybe they shouldn't buy it because it's above what their "level of equipment" should be.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:57 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by trf211
That's a reach for only having one race as your evidence. You can walk up and talk to any of their drivers at races and they'll show you their buggy, the setup they're running and why. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that test and development is better left to their top drivers instead of the public.
Actually my experience is a little different, the fastest guys rarely have the best setup skills ..... why? Because;

1) They don't need them as they can adapt their driving to suit a car that is OK / nearly there
2) They have a number of people who do have the skills to develop setups that are 100% but can't quite drive them as well as the "pros" who do the work for them.

In the UK we have a super fast young lad by the name of Tommy Hall, you'd not bet against him being on the podium at any European race, he's beaten some of the best in the world. Tommy is a really nice lad and a natural talent the likes we've not seen in the UK since Neil Cragg (who equally fits this example). Is Tommy the best guy to setup a car? Hell no! He's so good you can send him out with any old thing and within 3 laps he has adapted and getting the most out of what you have given him.
Tommy has a brother, Jamie, now he's the brains of the outfit and I am sure he won't mind me saying just a fraction slower than Tommy but he understands setup. They obviously both have me helping to.

So there you go, the tree of racing life

Superstar = Tommy
Fast guy who knows things = Jamie
The setup guy who can't quite keep up = Me lol

That is the same with most, not all, of the top drivers. Let 'em drive and ask the engineers the questions
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Old 01-15-2020, 05:18 AM
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RogerM
Actually my experience is a little different, the fastest guys rarely have the best setup skills ..... why? Because;

1) They don't need them as they can adapt their driving to suit a car that is OK / nearly there
2) They have a number of people who do have the skills to develop setups that are 100% but can't quite drive them as well as the "pros" who do the work for them.

In the UK we have a super fast young lad by the name of Tommy Hall, you'd not bet against him being on the podium at any European race, he's beaten some of the best in the world. Tommy is a really nice lad and a natural talent the likes we've not seen in the UK since Neil Cragg (who equally fits this example). Is Tommy the best guy to setup a car? Hell no! He's so good you can send him out with any old thing and within 3 laps he has adapted and getting the most out of what you have given him.
Tommy has a brother, Jamie, now he's the brains of the outfit and I am sure he won't mind me saying just a fraction slower than Tommy but he understands setup. They obviously both have me helping to.

So there you go, the tree of racing life

Superstar = Tommy
Fast guy who knows things = Jamie
The setup guy who can't quite keep up = Me lol

That is the same with most, not all, of the top drivers. Let 'em drive and ask the engineers the questions
Right I have seen many teams of younger skilled drivers paired with an experienced mechanic behind the scenes. They are often very successful. The driver can relax and focus on driving while the pit guy plays an integral role in getting the buggy prepared, plus it's a good feeling for the mechanic when you can help someone achieve their potential, like reliving their racing days in a way(atleast for the veteran rc guys).

But my point wasn't who is or isn't good at setting up a car and if it relates to their driving skill. More along the lines of I have trust in the company to test the parts in race conditions and figure them out. I don't think they have nefarious intent when their drivers are using new parts in the weeks leading up to the most competitive and prestigious race they enter in. As stated before there isn't a good reason why they wouldn't transfer any advantages/parts they did figure out onto the next buggy if they apply to common race conditions. But anyway enough blabbering about that. I'm excited to finally lay my original b6.1d to rest and start with a fresh buggy again.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:29 AM
  #101  
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Guys let's get back into the topic. Which is the new AE 2wd buggy coming out very soon.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:46 AM
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot
My question in this thread is... Will there be a 6.2 factory lite version?
Victorious posters will think first and then ask questions, while defeated posters will ask questions first, and then think.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:02 PM
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerM
The hubs are 100% not B74 hubs, trust me on that. They have a 2.5mm offset axle to centreline of hub to accommodate the now symmetrical rear arms. This information was teased out of the designer on a Facebook post (thank me later) but is quite clear to see if you look at the photos properly.
This gives you the option of achieving wheelbases and driveshaft sweep angles you cannot achieve on the current rear end, very useful if you know how to use it.

Equally the wishbones are not B74 one, there is a greater gullwing angle, different hub centre position, different anti-roll bar location and different shock positions. These things will make the car feel quite different in the hands of the fast guys.

Hope that helps.
Roger, care to comment or explain the technical reasons on how/why driveshaft sweep angle changes are useful tuning tools to the nerds like me who find these types of things interesting?
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