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AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread

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Old 10-30-2020, 02:57 PM   -   Wikipost
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Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday and Roger M.): What is the difference between 2 gears and 4 gears in the gear diff?
Please read these posts by Roger M. Maybe this has been answered but what are the little orings in diff do for tuning?
Please read these posts by Roger M.
Information on the rear axles and the different length dog bones from Roger M.

The 0 (option) and +2 (kit) axles are for using different length driveshafts with the different arm lengths

Kit +2 axles

73mm arms wih 67mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 69mm driveshafts

Option 0 axles

73mm arms with 65mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 67mm driveshafts

Why would you want to change the driveshaft length?
It is essentially to do with the fact that a drive joint will want to run straight under power and the position of that joint (the pin through the CVA joint into the axle).
The further that CVA joint pin is inboard of the lower hub hingepin (assuming you're running fairly typical outer link positions) the more bind you will generate in the suspension as the drive joint tried to straighten under power, this extra binding will 'stiffen' the suspension as it adds load on top of that from the weight transfer on the car.
Conversely the the nearer the CVA joint pin is to lower hub hinge pin the less bind and thus freer suspension movement.

When would you want to change this?

Basically on bumpy tracks, tracks with inconsistent grip or lower grip you want the suspension to be as free to move as possible so that you get the full benefit from the shock and roll centre tuning, also the car feels like it has more grip in the areas where you go on/off/on the gas.
To this end you will be running the longest possible dog bone you can for the arm length, hence why the +2 axles are in the kit.

On smooth super high grip tracks (EOS / CRC carpet for example) running a shorter dogbone will feel like it takes grip away from the rear as you get on power, aiding late corner rotation and reducing the on-power understeer that often plagues tight carpet tracks.
The only time I would run the 0 axles is with 67mm dogbones on 75mm arms and only then when I wish I could get let rear toe than the 1deg minimum we can get from the pills we have (actually I had custom pill made so I can get 0deg rear toe for those types of tracks but ...)

What are the handling differences between the 73 and 75mm arms.
Brief explanation from RogerM (thanks!)

The arm length effects the roll centre and more significantly the roll centre migration as the car rolls in the corners.

Shorter rear arms will encourage more tire loading so more grip as the car rolls, great for lower grip surfaces but on high grip surfaces they can stall the rotation mid corner costing corner speed. They can also make the car feel more reactive which is good when a low grip level makes the car feel less reactive so making it harder to place in technical sections.

Long rear arms the opposite, car will rotate more freely for more corner speed but won't generate as much side-bite so mid/late corner will be reduced. Make the car feel naturally lazier which is great on high grip surfaces as it makes the car easier to drive overall.

So the long Vs short rear arm is just like the flat Vs gullwing front arm, all about the grip level from the surface and how technical the track layout is.




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Old 08-14-2021, 12:01 AM
  #2656  
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Originally Posted by Joshstix
OK.

I guess either you invented the concept of carbon chassis or all of the other people that have already been doing this for years must have been too busy.

I'd be happy to hear about which if the top pros you're supplying chassis to though so that I can watch the progress.
Sorry can't say.
And I know ae have not done carbon chassis for testing to the pro drivers.
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Old 08-14-2021, 02:24 AM
  #2657  
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Now the car is 1417gr so now I can put the front brass part and the extra weight under servo and I am still under weight limit..
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Old 08-14-2021, 02:54 AM
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AE have done carbon buggy chassis in the past and also have carbon chassis for touring cars for sale on their website currently so it's not like they don't know about the technology or know how to make a carbon chassis.

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Old 08-14-2021, 04:24 AM
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I've used full carbon fiber buggy before. Very nimble almost twitchy but in a good way. I just didn't like the way it landed. I was getting close to figuring out the shocks and springs on it then I gave up. The Schumacher cf buggy looks nice too. PR racing had a cf buggy. Who else? Custom chassis looks good though let us know how it goes.
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:56 AM
  #2660  
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24gr attached to the bottom of the chassis..
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Old 08-14-2021, 06:54 PM
  #2661  
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Nice
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Old 08-15-2021, 06:06 AM
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If this is going to be used for competitive racing I would definitely suggest drilling it for countersunk hardware in each corner. It's a bit exposed to rely on those two tiny screws that normally hold that weight in and I would assume would result in a DQ for being under weight if it fell off during a race.
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Old 08-15-2021, 06:32 PM
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Trying to get my B6.2 prepared for the race in December but im not sure where to start as far as setup. Gearing will be spec for my class so I'm looking at other areas to evaluate for a baseline since this will be a temporary track and I'll be going in sight unseen. Most of the setups I've seen online on both the AE site and PetitRC are for 17.5 or modified. Suggestions?
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71
Trying to get my B6.2 prepared for the race in December but im not sure where to start as far as setup. Gearing will be spec for my class so I'm looking at other areas to evaluate for a baseline since this will be a temporary track and I'll be going in sight unseen. Most of the setups I've seen online on both the AE site and PetitRC are for 17.5 or modified. Suggestions?
For our local spec racing i look for a 17.5 setup on a similar grip traction and go from there. i often run the same base setup on 17.5 and 17.5 spec.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Joshstix
If this is going to be used for competitive racing I would definitely suggest drilling it for countersunk hardware in each corner. It's a bit exposed to rely on those two tiny screws that normally hold that weight in and I would assume would result in a DQ for being under weight if it fell off during a race.
That weight is screwed and glued to the chassis. So if I want that of the chassis I need good tools for that. I'll put an other weight in the bottom too..
Actually I was yesterday to test this car.
Just great...
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:35 PM
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I think he's running 25.5 on carpet.

Easy solution, just run 17.5. And no, none of us can tell you what setup you need as we dont drive there and you're trying to run a motor nobody has or should run in a race environment.

Some times going from mod to stock you need to make 1 or 2 tweaks to make the car rotate more as with more power it can upset the car more. You might find a similar thing from 17.5 to zero power but idk.

Get a setup from a 17.5 fast local I guess, that'd be my starting point.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter1969
24gr attached to the bottom of the chassis..
I don't get it, 24g is about the weight difference between your chassis and a kit chassis, and now yours has a massive weak spot unless its 4-5mm thick.

No pro is going to run something like that, especially with holes that aren't accurate. Its a neat experiment but thats about it.
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexv2024
I don't get it, 24g is about the weight difference between your chassis and a kit chassis, and now yours has a massive weak spot unless its 4-5mm thick.

No pro is going to run something like that, especially with holes that aren't accurate. Its a neat experiment but thats about it.
Yeah but now I can put the weight where I want.
Weak point. Ok I don't think so. It's an 4mm thick chassis..
And great to drive.
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Old 08-16-2021, 04:30 AM
  #2669  
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Originally Posted by daz_75
Bury metro for me. I always hate how cars cant handle bumps so having it soft is great. Plus I dont need to change it when its wet 😀 which is massive bonus when running 3 cars. I've qualified 3rd a couple of times behind some F1 drivers so seems to work ok. I just need to get my race craft back when running in a final 🙂
Setup is all about loading the tyres as they need for best performance which is why the drivers style is very important to consider, a setup perfect for someone who throws the car at the track and rotates hard on the brakes a lot will be terrible for someone who drives a more traditional smooth and flowing driving style.

If what you are using works for you then stick with it.
I say this all the time when people present me with a car running one of Cragg's setups and saying it is hard to drive .... yep .... but fast ... that is why Neil has been a world champion and none of the rest of us ever will be :-)
They usually put my setup on and go loads faster because although not ultimately as quick as the Cragg setup over a single perfect lap they can get it around for a run on all four wheels.

I would be collapsing the rear end all the time running as light as you, can't even get away with 27.5wt in the rear for normal dry astro conditions before the car becomes unstable! I do ask BIG questions of my cars though, luckily they have brave answers ;-)

All part of the fun, finding what works for you personally.
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Old 08-16-2021, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexv2024
I think he's running 25.5 on carpet.

Easy solution, just run 17.5. And no, none of us can tell you what setup you need as we dont drive there and you're trying to run a motor nobody has or should run in a race environment.

Some times going from mod to stock you need to make 1 or 2 tweaks to make the car rotate more as with more power it can upset the car more. You might find a similar thing from 17.5 to zero power but idk.

Get a setup from a 17.5 fast local I guess, that'd be my starting point.
this is uncharted waters for i reckon everyone running Super Spec at this particular event on a track that will be seen for the first time that Wednesday and run on that Thursday. I'm working with another guy at my home track that runs Associated on preparing the buggy over the next couple of months. Thanks for the advice
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