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AE B6.2D / B6.2 Thread

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Old 10-30-2020, 02:57 PM   -   Wikipost
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Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday and Roger M.): What is the difference between 2 gears and 4 gears in the gear diff?
Please read these posts by Roger M. Maybe this has been answered but what are the little orings in diff do for tuning?
Please read these posts by Roger M.
Information on the rear axles and the different length dog bones from Roger M.

The 0 (option) and +2 (kit) axles are for using different length driveshafts with the different arm lengths

Kit +2 axles

73mm arms wih 67mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 69mm driveshafts

Option 0 axles

73mm arms with 65mm driveshafts
75mm arms with 67mm driveshafts

Why would you want to change the driveshaft length?
It is essentially to do with the fact that a drive joint will want to run straight under power and the position of that joint (the pin through the CVA joint into the axle).
The further that CVA joint pin is inboard of the lower hub hingepin (assuming you're running fairly typical outer link positions) the more bind you will generate in the suspension as the drive joint tried to straighten under power, this extra binding will 'stiffen' the suspension as it adds load on top of that from the weight transfer on the car.
Conversely the the nearer the CVA joint pin is to lower hub hinge pin the less bind and thus freer suspension movement.

When would you want to change this?

Basically on bumpy tracks, tracks with inconsistent grip or lower grip you want the suspension to be as free to move as possible so that you get the full benefit from the shock and roll centre tuning, also the car feels like it has more grip in the areas where you go on/off/on the gas.
To this end you will be running the longest possible dog bone you can for the arm length, hence why the +2 axles are in the kit.

On smooth super high grip tracks (EOS / CRC carpet for example) running a shorter dogbone will feel like it takes grip away from the rear as you get on power, aiding late corner rotation and reducing the on-power understeer that often plagues tight carpet tracks.
The only time I would run the 0 axles is with 67mm dogbones on 75mm arms and only then when I wish I could get let rear toe than the 1deg minimum we can get from the pills we have (actually I had custom pill made so I can get 0deg rear toe for those types of tracks but ...)

What are the handling differences between the 73 and 75mm arms.
Brief explanation from RogerM (thanks!)

The arm length effects the roll centre and more significantly the roll centre migration as the car rolls in the corners.

Shorter rear arms will encourage more tire loading so more grip as the car rolls, great for lower grip surfaces but on high grip surfaces they can stall the rotation mid corner costing corner speed. They can also make the car feel more reactive which is good when a low grip level makes the car feel less reactive so making it harder to place in technical sections.

Long rear arms the opposite, car will rotate more freely for more corner speed but won't generate as much side-bite so mid/late corner will be reduced. Make the car feel naturally lazier which is great on high grip surfaces as it makes the car easier to drive overall.

So the long Vs short rear arm is just like the flat Vs gullwing front arm, all about the grip level from the surface and how technical the track layout is.




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Old 02-24-2021, 04:47 PM
  #2086  
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Originally Posted by Mind_Blower
AE discontinued the B6 gull wing hard front arms, does anyone know what's going on or if they are being replaced by something else?
According to AE engineers (responding to same question on facebook pages) the material of the hard arms will be changed and there will be a new part number.

Regards
Ray
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:16 AM
  #2087  
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Originally Posted by MrLean
In the pic it shows 4 of them on the parts tree?
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:56 AM
  #2088  
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Just run modified, can stop thinking about fans then ;-)
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RogerM
Just run modified, can stop thinking about fans then ;-)
Ha I would if I could hold on to it. Tiny little track mod and stock times are the same. I'd run mod if I was at a larger track for sure.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:29 AM
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The tracks I run on are also small, I run better/more consistent lap times with stock motors cause I suck lol. Plus they get 5 times the entries in stock vs mod.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 76jimmy
In the pic it shows 4 of them on the parts tree?
For the price we should get 4. I'll order some to have on hand between the 3 B6.2 buggies and 1 T6.2 that are in the family between all of us.
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Old 02-25-2021, 06:08 AM
  #2092  
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Holy .... them offering 3D printed parts is an awesome idea. I hope they'll keep adding stuff that doesn't make sense to make a new mold for (like some RC8 parts maybe?) to that.

Edit: They also made the .stl available for free (https://img2.associatedelectrics.com...-Fan-Mount.zip). Good stuff, I wish I checked for that before ordering but all good as I never had SLS parts before and am interested to see the quality.

Last edited by Kraig; 02-28-2021 at 09:38 AM. Reason: language
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:43 AM
  #2093  
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I re-built my transmission last night and this time I shimmed every shaft instead of just the diff on the cap-side. All bolts fully cinched and it's incredibly smooth. Highly recommended. I did have to find some shims from a non-hobby source. I can post a link to the shims I bought on Amazon if anybody is interested. I also used them to shim the front hubs.

AE should really sell a proper shim kit for their 1:10 stuff.

This car would probably benefit from some suspension shimming too. The arms and knuckles could use shimming all around (though the AE brass bulkhead seems to take care of the front arms).

Lastly, the steering rack bolts. Why they chose to skip over shouldered bolts is a mystery to me. I guess it cuts a few dollars from the kit cost, but at the expense of slop in the steering system that really does not need to be there.

I'll be sure to post links to everything when it's all figured out and tested.


EDIT: I've got to commend AE on their injection molded gears. These may be the truest injection molded gears I've even seen. Good stuff, AE.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by BaconRaygun
I re-built my transmission last night and this time I shimmed every shaft instead of just the diff on the cap-side. All bolts fully cinched and it's incredibly smooth. Highly recommended. I did have to find some shims from a non-hobby source. I can post a link to the shims I bought on Amazon if anybody is interested. I also used them to shim the front hubs.

AE should really sell a proper shim kit for their 1:10 stuff.

This car would probably benefit from some suspension shimming too. The arms and knuckles could use shimming all around (though the AE brass bulkhead seems to take care of the front arms).

Lastly, the steering rack bolts. Why they chose to skip over shouldered bolts is a mystery to me. I guess it cuts a few dollars from the kit cost, but at the expense of slop in the steering system that really does not need to be there.

I'll be sure to post links to everything when it's all figured out and tested.


EDIT: I've got to commend AE on their injection molded gears. These may be the truest injection molded gears I've even seen. Good stuff, AE.
I never even thought about the need to shim the transmission as I didn't notice much side to side play anywhere. As far as the arms, yes they are loose and it does fly in the face of what we wanted decades ago I raced cars. We always wanted free, but not a lot of play.

I doubt I would notice anything if I shimmed the arms as I am not good enough to really feel those differences.

As far as shims, I bought a series of yokomo shims that are in .005 increments to be able to shim stuff. I have shimmed a few things, but not too much. There are sources for 3 and 3.5 aluminum shims that would probably work for the arms. The local fast guys all told me it didn't matter so I try not to worry about it.

I do appreciate that the associated stuff goes together pretty smoothly. Back in the day we were reaming every arm and polishing every pin to get it together. By and large, there is no break-in in the suspension pieces or the transmission (diff excluded). Just seems to go together well.

As for shims, look for the Yokomo S40, S40s, S50, S50s if you feel the need.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:40 AM
  #2095  
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I didn't think shimming the arms would make much of a performance difference. More of a durability thing, specifically with regards to wear and not so much for crash-resistance. Though it is possible it may make a tiny difference for small bumps, I think it probably wont be much. Steering, though, you will feel. I can feel a slightly loose ballstud of servo horn, so I think dialing out that bit of play in the rack will have a noticeable difference in steering precision. I'm no race wizard, but if I can feel it I think others would too.

Thanks for the tip on the yokomo shims. That will come in handy.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:42 PM
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I am curious as to if anyone shims their diff in the case to stop side to side movement, I just built a b74.1 and shimmed all the diffs and was curious. I am sort of thinking itís not as necessary with the b6.2 as the gears are the opposite way and the mesh is sort of fixed already.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:09 PM
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Whatís up guys. Quick question on the b6.2d, will the removal of the waterfall and adding a turnbuckle, that will create more flex right? Also would it be a good idea in wet track racing with slicks?
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:11 PM
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Idk I shimmed my diff with 1 shim just to reduce not eliminate slop and left everything else alone. You aren't gaining anything and if the case flexes the extra room lets it not bind.

I try to keep my front end super tight though. The screws with the smooth shoulder were eliminated because a lot of people break them where the threads start. I used to run plain screws and cut the plastic nub off and run a 1mm spacer. That way incase it broke you can still remove the screw. Now I run the shoulder screws but to keep them from breaking I run the exotek race brace that screws into the top plate. That removes the most slop possible but still keeps it from basically ever breaking. You still can as some super high grip tracks and crashing can still stress the screw out enough. Super rare though.

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Old 02-25-2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexv2024
Idk I shimmed my diff with 1 shim just to reduce not eliminate slop and left everything else alone. You aren't gaining anything and if the case flexes the extra room lets it not bind.

I try to keep my front end super tight though. The screws with the smooth shoulder were eliminated because a lot of people break them where the threads start. I used to run plain screws and cut the plastic nub off and run a 1mm spacer. That way incase it broke you can still remove the screw. Now I run the shoulder screws but to keep them from breaking I run the exotek race brace that screws into the top plate. That removes the most slop possible but still keeps it from basically ever breaking. You still can as some super high grip tracks and crashing can still stress the screw out enough. Super rare though.
What's the part # for the shoulder screws. I run the exotek brace as well.
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Old 02-25-2021, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Silverbullet555
What's the part # for the shoulder screws. I run the exotek brace as well.
91678
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