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Stock 2wd buggy questions - getting back in

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Stock 2wd buggy questions - getting back in

Old 12-01-2019, 04:18 PM
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Default Stock 2wd buggy questions - getting back in

So I'm getting back in after a 3 year break and I have a few questions about the 2wd 17.5 buggy class. I just bought a B6.1d factory lite.

Steering servo:
How much torque/speed do I need? Is everyone running low profile now? - for weight savings? What low profile servo under $100 do you guys reccomend?

Batteries:
What capacity / weight do you reccomend for 17.5 2wd buggy? I see some great looking 6000 mah packs that look like they would have great punch through an entire run, but at 220g dont you loose with the weight? At what point are there diminishing returns with high capacity short lipos, when I am trying to keep the buggy around 1500g?
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Old 12-01-2019, 04:39 PM
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Yes to low profile servo, very common selection in 2wd and 4wd buggies. One of the most popular options is the ProTek 160T which is on Black Friday sale for $93 right now. Recommend picking up one of those.

Batteries, yes to something in the 4500-6000mah range. I'm personally running the ProTek 4900mah LiHV packs with awesome success. I still have tons of capacity leftover and decent voltage at the end of the runs, I think 6000 would likely be overkill but know some people running the 5800mah packs. ProTek batteries are also on Black Friday sale, would take advantage of that and pickup both.
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Old 12-01-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Anthony.L View Post
Yes to low profile servo, very common selection in 2wd and 4wd buggies. One of the most popular options is the ProTek 160T which is on Black Friday sale for $93 right now. Recommend picking up one of those.

Batteries, yes to something in the 4500-6000mah range. I'm personally running the ProTek 4900mah LiHV packs with awesome success. I still have tons of capacity leftover and decent voltage at the end of the runs, I think 6000 would likely be overkill but know some people running the 5800mah packs. ProTek batteries are also on Black Friday sale, would take advantage of that and pickup both.

great tips! Thank you!

one more question - how crucial is a motor analyzer. I saw a YouTube video on using them to get the timing right. Sounds awesome - I donít remember those being around back in 2015. Could have saved me from burning up a couple motors...
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Old 12-01-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wstuart View Post
great tips! Thank you!

one more question - how crucial is a motor analyzer. I saw a YouTube video on using them to get the timing right. Sounds awesome - I donít remember those being around back in 2015. Could have saved me from burning up a couple motors...
an analyzer is just another tool for tuning. Not crucial but very helpful. But you can do all the tuning you want on the box but after you gear it and run it, its a different story. You might have a great tune on the motor but gearing, in my opinion is more important. What I do and Ive said before, tune your motor, whatever turn it is to a respectable rpm/kv on the analyzer. Continue to tune up to the manufacturers recommended amp draw. Then gear accordingly to your track. Run it 2 or 3 minutes to make sure your not hot. Then make a full run. Check temps then gear up or down if needed. Thats just the way I do it...
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Old 12-01-2019, 10:03 PM
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if you're running a box stock motor from one of the bigger motor companies, an analyzer isn't necessary. you should just be able to contact them and ask for gearing/timing recommendations. that will get you as close as you need to be.

as for the weight, honestly with the power of modern 17.5's, i really don't care about weight. these motors make all the power you need so lowering the weight of the car with titanium this and carbon fiber that, isn't really necessary IMO. i'm perfectly comfortable running my B6.1 at 1550 or so.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RC*PHREAK View Post
if you're running a box stock motor from one of the bigger motor companies, an analyzer isn't necessary. you should just be able to contact them and ask for gearing/timing recommendations. that will get you as close as you need to be.

as for the weight, honestly with the power of modern 17.5's, i really don't care about weight. these motors make all the power you need so lowering the weight of the car with titanium this and carbon fiber that, isn't really necessary IMO. i'm perfectly comfortable running my B6.1 at 1550 or so.
One Acme RC motor isnt the same as the next one on the line. They vary. Sometimes significantly. A manufacturers recommendation on tuning/ gearing will mostly be close but not perfect. Just because you have an individual motor. There are other variables to consider that a company's recommendation cant allow for.
I too dont mind a little weight as well. Anyone who is a sponsored stock driver will argue that though. Thats the advantage of tenths. In stock, which is really closer to mod by definition if you ask me, any weight advantage is going to play in favor. With some exceptions of course. Weight savings is not necessary to me because I probably wont get that back in lower lap times. A more talented driver will. I say, if you want to spend your money on carbon this and titanium that, go for it. Will it make you faster? Maybe, maybe not. It'll look cooler though, and you'll be happy. That imo, is worth it.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:18 AM
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The question was "how crucial" an analyzer is. The answer is not much. again, you buy a reedy s-plus and follow their gearing/timing advice, you'll be right there. could get a watt or two with a degree of timing one way or the other? sure, but you're not going to notice a watt. even with that, how does the analyzer help you find that sweet spot? i use an analyzer for helping with timing/rotor shimming, but it's more for fun. i doubt it's really worth that much.

kyle layton won stock nats i think it was two (maybe three years) ago and his B6 was 1540-1545, in that range. unless you're racing on a large carpet track, i wouldn't break the bank trying to get to 1499. you like the bling? you want to customize? of course. go for it.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:16 AM
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I dont know of any analyzer that measures watts. The ones Ive had measure kv, rpm, poles, db, and amp draw. Of course you can do the mathematical conversion, but I aint no rocket surgeon. But I agree with you that its not crucial. Just another tool. I think between a temp gun along with an analyzer is how you find the sweet spot. Whether that sweet spot that you find lowers lap times is whatever.. Fact is, weight savings is a huge aspect of racing. Probably the most important behind safety in full scale. In any scale, in any form. Its one of the biggest reasons for the aftermarket. Its important to a lot of racers. But as I said before, not all.
Not me, not you, and not a lot of other people. But I think we are the minority when it comes to concerning our efforts in weight savings in stock. Thats just what I think. Im not positive.
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Old 12-02-2019, 12:03 PM
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I too recently returned to the sport after a hiatus. I was informed and found out personally that the spec classes are very competitive. You can drop some serious coin trying to keep up with the Joneses. The issue I see with that is Mr. Jones may have all the latest and greatest, but can't turn a clean lap without crashing, so having all the best stuff is pointless to me. At least until I am good enough to take advantage of it.

For me personally I am taking it in baby steps upgrading as my skills improve. There is the philosophy go big or go home, which means buy all the latest and greatest to future proof your purchases, or go with what works until you need more. The Protec160T or 160SS are great servos. They are light, fast, compact, and have been very reliable for me. Same with Protec batteries. I use the Protec 4900HV shorty battery and they last longer than my driving sessions do. Solid reasonable choices. I do not see a need for more. The buggy you chose is also a great buggy. The are also many other brands that are just as good or better. I would ask around at your local track or do your online research to see what's out there.

Personally, I put motor analyzers into the same category as tire warmers, tire sauce, and 40 amp chargers/dischargers. Might help you to get a bit more out of your stuff, but again if you are coming back from a break and your driving skills are not back to snuff yet, you may not benefit from the extras at this point. For example I have seen guys using all the tricks like cycling their batteries, saucing tires, doing tire break-ins on a drill, using tire warmers, using four point scales, Hudy set up boards, etc., but once they were out on the track they were just a step above a novice and couldn't hold a line if their life depended on it. To be fair I have also seen very fast drivers, doing the same rituals and easily lapping me on the track, so it's all relative. YMMV.

On the other hand, if you were previously an "A Main" driver then most of my philosophy does not apply to you anyways.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:23 PM
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no, they don't measure watts, but in finding the "sweet spot" with an analyzer, you should then be able to put it on a dyno and see the improvement in wattage (which nobody would do because if they had a dyno, they would use that and not the analyzer).

i still would like to hear your method of using an analyzer to find the "sweet spot".
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:52 PM
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I dont. I combine the normal methods to find the sweet spot. I dont just trust the numbers on the box. I use it for an initial tune then go from there. I use it after a couple months of using a particular motor to see if the numbers are still good. I use it to play around and experiment. Thats all. The analyzer isnt the end all be all of tuning and I didnt mean my previous posts to imply that. Everyone has their own gig. Thats just how I do it.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Funkydrummer1 View Post
I dont. I combine the normal methods to find the sweet spot. I dont just trust the numbers on the box. I use it for an initial tune then go from there. I use it after a couple months of using a particular motor to see if the numbers are still good. I use it to play around and experiment. Thats all. The analyzer isnt the end all be all of tuning and I didnt mean my previous posts to imply that. Everyone has their own gig. Thats just how I do it.
which is why it's not "crucial".

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Old 12-02-2019, 02:40 PM
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Never said it was....(1st post)
I personally put more value into an analyzer than you. Thats what Ive been saying all along. Doest mean you have to have one, nor have I told you or anyone to go get one. My opinion was it is a tool to further your tuning capabilities. Which it is. To what degree of significance is debatable. Ive only stated what I do, which is not uncommon. Everyone has their own way of tuning. Take all you know, learned and experienced and do your own thing.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:53 PM
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Zipperfoot sums it up pretty nicely. There isn't much opportunity in spending tons of money on all of the stock do-dads anymore. Get a decent battery and motor, and tune any of the great kits well and they're all win capable, practically box stock. The tuning game is part of the fun for lots of guys, so if tinkering is fun, do it, just try not to get caught up in the idea that it's necessary to be competitive because it really isn't.

An analyzer is a nice tool to help one understand how a motor is behaving but it will not measure power output. Case in point, my 17.5 and 13.5 with the lowest kv/peak rpm are easily my fastest motors of their respective types because they have the strongest rotors and make more torque, which the analyzer doesn't capture at all.
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by zipperfoot View Post
I too recently returned to the sport after a hiatus. I was informed and found out personally that the spec classes are very competitive. You can drop some serious coin trying to keep up with the Joneses. The issue I see with that is Mr. Jones may have all the latest and greatest, but can't turn a clean lap without crashing, so having all the best stuff is pointless to me. At least until I am good enough to take advantage of it.

For me personally I am taking it in baby steps upgrading as my skills improve. There is the philosophy go big or go home, which means buy all the latest and greatest to future proof your purchases, or go with what works until you need more. The Protec160T or 160SS are great servos. They are light, fast, compact, and have been very reliable for me. Same with Protec batteries. I use the Protec 4900HV shorty battery and they last longer than my driving sessions do. Solid reasonable choices. I do not see a need for more. The buggy you chose is also a great buggy. The are also many other brands that are just as good or better. I would ask around at your local track or do your online research to see what's out there.

Personally, I put motor analyzers into the same category as tire warmers, tire sauce, and 40 amp chargers/dischargers. Might help you to get a bit more out of your stuff, but again if you are coming back from a break and your driving skills are not back to snuff yet, you may not benefit from the extras at this point. For example I have seen guys using all the tricks like cycling their batteries, saucing tires, doing tire break-ins on a drill, using tire warmers, using four point scales, Hudy set up boards, etc., but once they were out on the track they were just a step above a novice and couldn't hold a line if their life depended on it. To be fair I have also seen very fast drivers, doing the same rituals and easily lapping me on the track, so it's all relative. YMMV.

On the other hand, if you were previously an "A Main" driver then most of my philosophy does not apply to you anyways.
I dont know where you race, but at least where I go, which is an indoor med grip clay track, its sauce all day. Seems to me that tire break in rituals and saucing are a regular routine even at a local level. I know I break my tires in before an event. Gotta do it. Ive seen some pros with tire warmers, some people are buying into it, some are not. Warm tires have more grip. Its simple. Its like anything else. Gadgets are what makes a hobby interesting. Look at golf for Go#s sake. Geez...lol!!!
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