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TLR 22X Anyone? (NextGen 2WD Wishlist)

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TLR 22X Anyone? (NextGen 2WD Wishlist)

Old 09-26-2019, 10:35 AM
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Default TLR 22X Anyone? (NextGen 2WD Wishlist)

First off, a Disclaimer - Iím getting back into the hobby after almost 20 years. Iím going to start racing onroad, and have already chosen the manufacturer/classes I intend to race with. I would love to explore racing off road at some point as well, as itís something that I never truly got to enjoy in my former RC life due to circumstances beyond my control. I am also considering the manufacturer that I chose for on-road, but still have an open mind. My only buggy ever was an original RC10, upgraded to CE Edition specs later on (wider arms, black tub, stealth transmission, etc.). I was, for all intents and purposes, an AE Lifer, as my on road cars (except for my Nitro TC) weíre Associated vehicles. As I am coming back to the hobby, I decided to come back with a fresh perspective, and would like to stick to one manufacturer for all the off-Road classes I plan to participate in...

With that out of the way, I have to honestly say, TLR is definitely only my radar as a possibility - not only because of all the buzz behind the new 22X-4 at the Worldís, but because of the the evolution of the 8ight-X buggies. I also came across a recent review of the 22 5.0, where it was kindly noted that, while a major evolution, is still a little behind behind what other manufacturers have done in the space... So, with that being said, here are a few things I would love to see in a potential 22X (Hey, they may as well ride on the coattails of the 22X-4 if it realizes its potential) - keep in mind that I have ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE with TLR, nor Team Losi before it, so if I have overlooked something in my research, by all means, point it out! I wonít get offended, I promise!
  • Differential access - This is probably the biggest sticking point right now, especially in light of the fact that they addressed this detail with the 8ight buggies, and apparently with the 22X-4 as well.
  • Gearbox options - While itís cool to see that the 22 has the typical Laydown and standup options, it would be cool to see them catch up and provide a ďlaybackĒ option as well, with adjustable waterfall placement, like the, erm... competition. Again, all about options and adjustability.
  • Wheels - Include an option to use the same hex wheels as the rest of the industry. I am sure you can always include the option to still use legacy wheels, but open up the repository for everyone.
  • Open ballcups - I know that TLR apparently regressed on this feature due to issues with the previous try, but thereís no reason you canít look at it again and give it another try.
Thatís really all there is to it. Itís a short list, really, but are things, to me, that can make a pretty exceptional buggy even better to par up with AE. Anyone agree? Disagree? Again, feel free to enlighten me! And thanks for reading this mega long post, especially if you represent TLR, lol.

UPDATE: If you read in a few pages, you will discover that I did finally choose/buy into TLR as my manufacturer of choice for any off-road Racing I plan on doing... I can tell you that it WAS NOT an easy decision, especially given my history with Associated vehicles, but there it is. Although I am now officially in the TLR camp, my wishlist still stands as a new customer - Thanks for reading!

Last edited by TurnNBurn; 10-05-2019 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:59 AM
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Not sure which review you saw, but that seems like exactly my comments in my review video. So... I agree?

There is not exactly an industry standard for 2wd wheels. I think AE and Yokomo are the same, but Kyosho are slightly different. Don't know about the rest.
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post
Not sure which review you saw, but that seems like exactly my comments in my review video. So... I agree?

There is not exactly an industry standard for 2wd wheels. I think AE and Yokomo are the same, but Kyosho are slightly different. Don't know about the rest.
I had to dig through my YouTube history a bit, but yeah, it was, LOL! Itís also because of that review that I did a little more research on the Diff/transmissions in particular, since it looks like TLR ďeconomizedĒ on the actual gearbox in the SR version. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Elite DC and AC versions throw in the ability to adjust diff height, not to mention choose between ball/gear diff - so in this regard, theyíve made significant efforts to catch up with the competition. It was also cool to see the aluminum inner link mounts with all the adjustability baked in to toy with rear roll center. So Yeah, I think if they added a layback option - heck, maybe even with a 4th idler - to adjust motor position/weight placement, theyíd definitely be back in the game technology wise.

With regard to wheels, I was under the impression, just based on commentary here and there across so many different off road topics, that TLR was the standout of the bunch as far as wheels go - at least the fronts. If Kyosho is indeed different, then I do appreciate the information. I wonder where XRay, not to mention HBís development buggy sit as far as wheels go? All-in-all, it is about time that manufacturers stand together and just pick a universal mount strategy. It will only serve to help the consumer - especially if they are considering switching brands, and give 3rd party manufacturers a potentially greater client base while maintaining lower production costs and simpler catalogs. Pretty much every other major class does it, so itís about time the 2WD buggy class did it too.
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:42 AM
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Just some mild corrections -- I'm pretty sure the AC/DC/Elite all have the same transmission case, so should have all of the same adjustments.

With regards to laydown/layback -- I think AE is the only one to have done that so far, and it's debatable whether the layback offers an advantage over laydown. For me personally, I like it because then I don't have to use a brass C block on medium traction, but it may go the way of the standup transmission and disappear. I also like flat arms on my B6.1 and nobody else does, so my opinion may be in question here...

Standardized wheels would definitely make life easier, but you have to view it from the point of the manufacturer. It's hard for any of them to change since their customer base probably already has a dozen+ wheels/tires, so you can't just tell them they have to throw them all out. I'm sure they would all like a standard, but I'm also sure the way they think it should happen is that their version becomes the "standard" and everyone else should change to theirs.

"The best way for you and me to agree is for you to change your opinion to mine."
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post

With regards to laydown/layback -- I think AE is the only one to have done that so far, and it's debatable whether the layback offers an advantage over laydown. For me personally, I like it because then I don't have to use a brass C block on medium traction, but it may go the way of the standup transmission and disappear. I also like flat arms on my B6.1 and nobody else does, so my opinion may be in question here...

Standardized wheels would definitely make life easier, but you have to view it from the point of the manufacturer. It's hard for any of them to change since their customer base probably already has a dozen+ wheels/tires, so you can't just tell them they have to throw them all out. I'm sure they would all like a standard, but I'm also sure the way they think it should happen is that their version becomes the "standard" and everyone else should change to theirs.

"The best way for you and me to agree is for you to change your opinion to mine."
Yokomo have had a layback gearbox called LD since the YZ-2T. As you already mentioned, the layback is a great way to get more weight on the rear wheels, and it gets even better in very slippery conditions when combined with a steel/brass c-block. Flat arms are a thing of preference really, and in some cases work better with certain tires. Apparently there is an advantage when using Cactus in the rear, which are said to cause erratic handling mid-corner in some situations. That's is just what I heard though...
As for wheels, Kyosho rear wheels are slightly different because ther eis less thread on the stub axles, but off-set is the same IIRC. 3rd party wheels like JConcepts should work just fine. It would be great to be able to mount standard wheels on a TLR car. Xray have a different off-set, but can be adapted with other wheel hexes.
All of the above points would be greatly appreciated. It may be just me, but I'd like a Yokomo-style battery mount, too.

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Old 09-26-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post
Just some mild corrections -- I'm pretty sure the AC/DC/Elite all have the same transmission case, so should have all of the same adjustments.

With regards to laydown/layback -- I think AE is the only one to have done that so far, and it's debatable whether the layback offers an advantage over laydown. For me personally, I like it because then I don't have to use a brass C block on medium traction, but it may go the way of the standup transmission and disappear. I also like flat arms on my B6.1 and nobody else does, so my opinion may be in question here...

Standardized wheels would definitely make life easier, but you have to view it from the point of the manufacturer. It's hard for any of them to change since their customer base probably already has a dozen+ wheels/tires, so you can't just tell them they have to throw them all out. I'm sure they would all like a standard, but I'm also sure the way they think it should happen is that their version becomes the "standard" and everyone else should change to theirs.

"The best way for you and me to agree is for you to change your opinion to mine."
yokomo has a layback trans case labelled the ld, laydown dirt, and lc laydown carpet, no stand up case though.
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Old 09-26-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post
Just some mild corrections -- I'm pretty sure the AC/DC/Elite all have the same transmission case, so should have all of the same adjustments.

With regards to laydown/layback -- I think AE is the only one to have done that so far, and it's debatable whether the layback offers an advantage over laydown. For me personally, I like it because then I don't have to use a brass C block on medium traction, but it may go the way of the standup transmission and disappear. I also like flat arms on my B6.1 and nobody else does, so my opinion may be in question here...

Standardized wheels would definitely make life easier, but you have to view it from the point of the manufacturer. It's hard for any of them to change since their customer base probably already has a dozen+ wheels/tires, so you can't just tell them they have to throw them all out. I'm sure they would all like a standard, but I'm also sure the way they think it should happen is that their version becomes the "standard" and everyone else should change to theirs.

"The best way for you and me to agree is for you to change your opinion to mine."
As for the transmission case, yeah - I didnít state or research it, but I figured that those models use the same case - that being said, itís kind of strange that the SR would be the glaring standout. They economize, yet paid to make a mold specific to that kit? Must also kind of suck that you canít easily adjust the diff like the other kits. And I can see your logic for the viability of stand ups, but what if puffy loose dirt tracks make a comeback one day, requiring motors further back?

As for arms, thatís a design choice, and while AE has specific design goals for why they set up the buggy with straight vs. gullwing arms (with the appropriate shock geometry adjustments), at the end of the day, itís about how you as a driver feels driving it with your setup approach, so thatís cool. That being said, TLR seems to have their approach, and it looks like they managed to do it with one set of really adjustable arms.

Ah, the wheels. Personally, since several kits donít even come with them anymore, why would the manufacturers care about changing to a common platform? They can stop manufacturing the wheels for a while (saving them money), and let the aftermarket fill in the gaps meanwhile. At the same time, they can also offer adapters to tide customers with old wheels over*until the market setttles, and they can eventually get back to manufacturing a universal wheel... Thatís just my $0.02, anyway, ha. In the end, I think that consumers would appreciate it in the long run. Thanks for the additional info!

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Old 09-26-2019, 01:55 PM
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Sorry, I meant AC/DC/SR/Elite all have the same transmission case.
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:59 PM
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While not a layback option, Kyosho and I believe Xray have offered 4-gear laydown transmissions in the past.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:51 PM
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Options for the various wheel standards, various hex's and clearance for at least the major brands out there, easier diff access, for the love of anything sacred easier servo access.
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Old 09-26-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jpcopeland1 View Post


yokomo has a layback trans case labelled the ld, laydown dirt, and lc laydown carpet, so stand up kid motor case though.
There's the original DT stand-up transmission / conversion kit.YOKZ2-302SC
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post
"The best way for you and me to agree is for you to change your opinion to mine."
I like this quote. It's right in there with what Dan Aykroyd told John Belushi in the movie Neighbors. "If I wanted your opinion I'd pound it out of you"
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RazorRC View Post
Sorry, I meant AC/DC/SR/Elite all have the same transmission case.
Hmm, IIRC, I think you mentioned in your SR review that because of the transmission case, you couldnít use the TLR Diff tool? Or maybe I misunderstood out of context? Anyway, if they are the same, thatís great.

One thing that I noticed in doing more research was that the case seems to be a carryover of the 4.0 case? If so, hereís where I may or may not have turned South... Again, looking at the 4.0, it appears that the laydown case was carried over to the 5.0... but the 4.0 also had the option for a standup transmission as well (sold in a standup kit no less)... Of course, the kit (being sold on A-Main) only lists the 4.0 in the compatibility list, but some guy is selling one used on eBay as a 3.0/4.0/5.0 standup transmission. Sooo... is it compatible, or not? And if it is, then may I presume that this would shift the motor a little further back to the rear on the chassis? Would using it screw up the geometry in the rear? I mean heck, if TLR already has these kinds of things sorted out, then really, the only thing on my (and possibly othersí) wishlist would be the easy transmission access and MAYBE some kind of wheel consolidation, like in just about EVERY OTHER CLASS, lol. Maybe this is why Gil Jr. is getting more actively involved... 🤔

And yes, I get it - just use a power driver, blah blah blah... but if youíve ever raced in a situation where you are using the gear diff, and need to try a oil change more than once, or even try another diff choice (like going to the ball diff to give it a try), then the tedious assembly/disassembly of half the car gets old real quick.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:38 AM
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The stand up fits in the 5.0, no change to suspension geometry. Of course the motor moves back, that is the point of the stand up. TLR doest include it because most people dont use it.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:52 AM
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Take a look at the ELITE....Just finished building mine. And to be honest, getting the diff out isn't that bad. Looks far worse then it really is. And for servo removal, it's 2 screws to remove the crossbrace that it is attached to. Fit and finish are beyond excellent.
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