652LikesNew TLR 1/10 4WD buggy?
09-17-2019, 11:11 PM
#76
Based on the TLR Kit part# being TLR03022 22 5.0 Elite Kit, & they tend to use sequential part #’s, which leaves a gap b/t
22 SR 5.0 TLR03018
22 AC 5.0 TLR03017
22 DC 5.0 TLR03016
That leaves
TLR03019
TLR03020
TLR03021
Not used yet, so maybe there will be an Elite AC, SR, & 1 or 2 versions of the 4wd.. maybe an SR 4wd.
The shaft-drive, I think, is more for high-traction smooth, where the 22-4 was originally for tracks like the Hudy Worlds track. I’m curious to see if they got enough experience on the new 4wd for this Worlds track. When the 22-4 was released at the Nats/Worlds they didn’t really have track time with them 1st.
22 SR 5.0 TLR03018
22 AC 5.0 TLR03017
22 DC 5.0 TLR03016
That leaves
TLR03019
TLR03020
TLR03021
Not used yet, so maybe there will be an Elite AC, SR, & 1 or 2 versions of the 4wd.. maybe an SR 4wd.
The shaft-drive, I think, is more for high-traction smooth, where the 22-4 was originally for tracks like the Hudy Worlds track. I’m curious to see if they got enough experience on the new 4wd for this Worlds track. When the 22-4 was released at the Nats/Worlds they didn’t really have track time with them 1st.
09-18-2019, 05:55 AM
#77
Tech Master
iTrader: (15)
I know I am in the massive minority, but the old model worked so well on low traction dirt. I do not have a high traction clay or Astro/carpet track within 3 hours of me. Kinda bummed on this car being dedicated to the high traction/smooth tracks.
Who knows though, maybe I’ll be wrong and it will be a low traction monster like the old one.
Who knows though, maybe I’ll be wrong and it will be a low traction monster like the old one.
09-18-2019, 07:17 AM
#78
I know I am in the massive minority, but the old model worked so well on low traction dirt. I do not have a high traction clay or Astro/carpet track within 3 hours of me. Kinda bummed on this car being dedicated to the high traction/smooth tracks.
Who knows though, maybe I’ll be wrong and it will be a low traction monster like the old one.
Who knows though, maybe I’ll be wrong and it will be a low traction monster like the old one.
09-18-2019, 07:21 AM
#79
I was hoping that is the case. I almost bought a 22-4 2.0 due to the recent price drop. Our track is low traction and rough and I was looking for wheelers that might be better suited to those conditions. Scored a deal on a D418 so hopefully it works ok. I tried my XB4 and it seemed okay on lower traction (maybe center diff helps a lot in these situations versus a dual or triple belt wheeler with slipper).
09-18-2019, 07:43 AM
#80
I wouldn't take too much stock in who wins in the elite pro level with TLR . Theyve scaled back their team involvement considerably. Whether intentionally or not I dont know. But look who the pro representatives are. Phend, Rinderknecht, and Savoya.
Phend cant finish a race, Savoya is an 8 scale guy and that leaves Tom who is an up and comer and is wicked fast, I dont think hes gonna be a guy to lead a team. I bet the new 4wd car is exceptional. No different that any other platform as far as potential. Its the racers' support that makes the difference. AE produces good cars, but had many problems with the 44 platform. It still was very successful. Support and communication between racers and management is the difference.
( except if your Tessman)
Phend cant finish a race, Savoya is an 8 scale guy and that leaves Tom who is an up and comer and is wicked fast, I dont think hes gonna be a guy to lead a team. I bet the new 4wd car is exceptional. No different that any other platform as far as potential. Its the racers' support that makes the difference. AE produces good cars, but had many problems with the 44 platform. It still was very successful. Support and communication between racers and management is the difference.
( except if your Tessman)
09-18-2019, 08:33 AM
#81
This is true, but the manufacturers sponsor teams, and the team is a reflection of the manufacturers commitment to racing. In 1/10, Tamiya (on-road) and Durango are great examples of manufacturers who used to sponsor teams and used to do very well on the biggest stage. In addition, a lot of racer support including setup sheets, tips, etc come from the team, so if the team is cut back, so is the support. If Horizon wants Losi to be a basher brand, that is one thing, but finishing 16th in the 2wd worlds is not good, and tarnishes the brand and the platform. In terms of the financials of the team, there are obviously limitations, but RC pros are not making 6 figures from the chassis sponsor, and it only takes a few wins to revive a brand's prestige. Again, what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.
09-18-2019, 08:36 AM
#82
I wouldn't take too much stock in who wins in the elite pro level with TLR . Theyve scaled back their team involvement considerably. Whether intentionally or not I dont know. But look who the pro representatives are. Phend, Rinderknecht, and Savoya.
Phend cant finish a race, Savoya is an 8 scale guy and that leaves Tom who is an up and comer and is wicked fast, I dont think hes gonna be a guy to lead a team. I bet the new 4wd car is exceptional. No different that any other platform as far as potential. Its the racers' support that makes the difference. AE produces good cars, but had many problems with the 44 platform. It still was very successful. Support and communication between racers and management is the difference.
( except if your Tessman)
Phend cant finish a race, Savoya is an 8 scale guy and that leaves Tom who is an up and comer and is wicked fast, I dont think hes gonna be a guy to lead a team. I bet the new 4wd car is exceptional. No different that any other platform as far as potential. Its the racers' support that makes the difference. AE produces good cars, but had many problems with the 44 platform. It still was very successful. Support and communication between racers and management is the difference.
( except if your Tessman)
09-18-2019, 08:51 AM
#83
This is true, but the manufacturers sponsor teams, and the team is a reflection of the manufacturers commitment to racing. In 1/10, Tamiya (on-road) and Durango are great examples of manufacturers who used to sponsor teams and used to do very well on the biggest stage. In addition, a lot of racer support including setup sheets, tips, etc come from the team, so if the team is cut back, so is the support. If Horizon wants Losi to be a basher brand, that is one thing, but finishing 16th in the 2wd worlds is not good, and tarnishes the brand and the platform. In terms of the financials of the team, there are obviously limitations, but RC pros are not making 6 figures from the chassis sponsor, and it only takes a few wins to revive a brand's prestige. Again, what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday.
Releasing the 22-4 2.0 kit for sale (a great fast car, super easy to drive), and then a few months later have your top driver shown racing a heavily modified prototype 22-4 2.0 at big races, posting setup sheets, talking how great it handles, etc.. Kills the sales of the newish released 22-4 2.0 kit bcz racers think something new is coming out soon.
Then have your B-team guys, ~1yr later, running and showing off similar custom built prototypes of the 22-4 2.0 cars, posting setups, claiming how awesome it is, further kills sales of the existing 22-4 2.0 kit bcz consumers see the heavy mod's "believed" needed to win racers OR believe a new car is coming soon.... from a pure marketing perspective, The Company/Team clearly never wanted the 22-4 2.0 car kit to sell or make money by doing this. Plus, you have destroyed your customer trust in the company & products.
Add to that all the anticipation of FINALLY seeing/buying this prototype 22-4 2.0 with the 2yrs worth of shown tweaks, to then get a Worlds Photo Tease of the new 4wd.. and its a completely different platform, a trending platform that follows another company's lead.. From a consumer perspective, TLR will release a car, race something totally different that the consumers cannot buy, then change it up completely. Whereas other company's will race the kit the consumer CAN buy, the parts they CAN buy.... and NOT race/show any prototypes until right before releasing the new car for sale. That's how you don't kill consumer confidence in your product.
Last edited by Beau S; 09-18-2019 at 11:00 AM.
09-18-2019, 09:36 AM
#84
In the first sentence, I assume you mean the 22-4 1.0 kit with the saddle packs. To be fair to Losi, the original 22-4 was based on the xx-4 or xxx-4 which used round cells. They released the 22-4 with saddle packs at a time when most 4wd buggies were still using saddle packs. The transition to shorty packs happened a short time later, so they released a shorty conversion, then the 22-4 2.0. You can't fault Losi for changing their design, but they really should have started from scratch on the 22-4, instead of updating their dated platform.
In terms of the long wait between running a prototype and releasing it for sale, I agree with you. In this regard, xray is really smart, they announce a new model and release it within a month to maximize sales.
In terms of the long wait between running a prototype and releasing it for sale, I agree with you. In this regard, xray is really smart, they announce a new model and release it within a month to maximize sales.
09-18-2019, 09:41 AM
#85
The whole 1/10 race market is contracting, and has been for a few years. I think a lot of teams were
dropping their “name brand” pros and going with someone cheaper, and these pros had to go somewhere else with arguably a worse sponsorship deal. I.e. Cavalieri to Yokomo/Mugen, Tebo to Tekno, Lutz to Agama, a smaller TLR team, etc.
My local track/store used to be 1/3 bashers, 2/3 race kits. Now it’s 1/3 crawlers, 1/3 bashers and 1/3 race kits.
What will be interesting is when they announce. If they win, I would guess there is an unofficial announcement immediately. If they do really poorly, maybe in a few months and chalk it up as a “prototype”?
dropping their “name brand” pros and going with someone cheaper, and these pros had to go somewhere else with arguably a worse sponsorship deal. I.e. Cavalieri to Yokomo/Mugen, Tebo to Tekno, Lutz to Agama, a smaller TLR team, etc.
My local track/store used to be 1/3 bashers, 2/3 race kits. Now it’s 1/3 crawlers, 1/3 bashers and 1/3 race kits.
What will be interesting is when they announce. If they win, I would guess there is an unofficial announcement immediately. If they do really poorly, maybe in a few months and chalk it up as a “prototype”?
09-18-2019, 09:42 AM
#86
In the first sentence, I assume you mean the 22-4 1.0 kit with the saddle packs. To be fair to Losi, the original 22-4 was based on the xx-4 or xxx-4 which used round cells. They released the 22-4 with saddle packs at a time when most 4wd buggies were still using saddle packs. The transition to shorty packs happened a short time later, so they released a shorty conversion, then the 22-4 2.0. You can't fault Losi for changing their design, but they really should have started from scratch on the 22-4, instead of updating their dated platform.
09-18-2019, 10:13 AM
#87
It was dated. The 22-4 was released in 2013. In terms of some other 4wd buggies in 2013, you had the b44.2, the D413, and the Dex410 v4. All of the new 4wd buggies in 2013-2014 (except Schumacher,) were shaft drive. Fundamental changes in the design of 4wd buggies mirrored those in 2wd with the switch from rm to mm. Tracks and tires evolved and so did the race cars. The xx-4 was revolutionary in 1997 and did well for a long time (all of the way through the 22-4 2.0,) but times change. The design of the Losi 22 was revolutionary (with a nod to x-factory,) the 22-4 was not. It would have been interesting if Losi had released the 22-4 1.0 with shorty pack support from the start.
09-18-2019, 10:40 AM
#88
What they're doing now doesn't appear to be innovation (we'll see once the body comes off...), it looks more like trend chasing. Unfortunately, that is what must be done sometimes to maintain relevance.
09-18-2019, 11:34 AM
#89
It was dated. The 22-4 was released in 2013. In terms of some other 4wd buggies in 2013, you had the b44.2, the D413, and the Dex410 v4. All of the new 4wd buggies in 2013-2014 (except Schumacher,) were shaft drive. Fundamental changes in the design of 4wd buggies mirrored those in 2wd with the switch from rm to mm. Tracks and tires evolved and so did the race cars. The xx-4 was revolutionary in 1997 and did well for a long time (all of the way through the 22-4 2.0,) but times change. The design of the Losi 22 was revolutionary (with a nod to x-factory,) the 22-4 was not. It would have been interesting if Losi had released the 22-4 1.0 with shorty pack support from the start.
09-18-2019, 12:17 PM
#90
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Last edited by zipperfoot; 02-11-2020 at 03:59 AM.