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The "what to race" question - Is the slash a bad idea? Is the TT02b better?

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The "what to race" question - Is the slash a bad idea? Is the TT02b better?

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Old 05-15-2019, 01:46 AM
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Default The "what to race" question - Is the slash a bad idea? Is the TT02b better?

Excuse me for a moment, while I don my fire resistant underwear...

..... Ok then. Here we go.

The slash is a problematic platform. First, it's huge, which leads to lots of other problem. The bodies are also large, and expensive. The bodies are more disposable than a 1/12 scale car. The chassis is a scaled up buggy, and tend to break. They have high CG's. They're rear motor, while not inherently a problem it's atypical of modern race cars. They're a buggy, that's been asked to do a lot, leading to breakage, a sloppy sounding, and sloppy feeling vehicle. What's almost as big of a deal, is the slash is always a RTR. "How do I fix <insert item here>" are painfully frequent questions.

Watching SCT's race, is not.. something.. I ... enjoy. They're noisy, sloppy, and end up upside down way more than you'd expect.

So what's the next option? And.... really there doesn't seem to be much. The Traxxas bandit isn't much better, with it's high CG and styling that would have been dated in the late 80's. While there's $99 on road options, I can't find anything in the off road market.

Tamiya sells the DT02, which has most of the Slash problems, but being smaller, it doesn't get hurt as often. And then there's the DT03, which while a more modern layout, isn't a whole lot better.

Here's what I propose. "Baby's first r/c car" should be a TT02b. It's 4wd, which is something people should get a handle on, weather they're serious about off road or on. 4wd means it takes standard wheels. It also takes standard size tires. There's a slew of bodies available for it. (Dual ridge, Plasma Edge, Rising Storm) so people can have cars that look different. There's a huge parts supply, as it's 80% the same as the on road TT02. And it's mostly made of soft plastics, so it bounces instead of breaks.

Without a whole lot of hunting, you can have a useful TT02b, with battery and charger for less than a Slash.

Now the TT02 has problems too. Shoving a 13.5 in one is asking for broken parts, but I bet it's quite happy on a torque tuned motor. It can spit out dogbones if it hits something hard enough. The box kit has almost no adjust ability beyond shock oil, and shock preload.

So that's my argument for "something other than the slash". What would you propose? Am I just unaware of the cheap chassis for off road use?

Ok.. enough night rambling. Pretend the slash isn't a thing. How would you get someone into racing off road. Your budget is $500, and you can't say "buy used".
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:33 AM
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If it is going to be "baby's first r/c car" as opposed to "baby's first race car", can I recommend any of the Tamiya "fun series" cars instead? Mega tough and very fun. If you want to "race", i'm struggling to think of better options than the tt02b....
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:41 AM
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For a 500$ starting package I would look at one of the Hobbyking TeamC rebrands (BZ444).
I am willing to keep an open mind about a lot of things but... a TT02B? That's just throwing money out the window, period.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:51 AM
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I’m a bit confused by the question. But I’ll take a shot. Having yet to try any form off off road racing. What about going with a smaller scale to start with. The Associated 1/14 Reflex or Losi mimi8 as a starter class.
Original tires didn’t last long. Didn’t expect them to. Mini8 desert buggy tires. I don’t see these wearing out any time soon.
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Old 05-15-2019, 03:51 AM
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So, I will chime in here a bit. Is this to be a thread based on a Slash vs. TT02-B, or trying to figure out what is a good class for young kids (or something else)? Just trying to see where this is to go.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sir 51D3WAYS View Post
If it is going to be "baby's first r/c car" as opposed to "baby's first race car", can I recommend any of the Tamiya "fun series" cars instead? Mega tough and very fun. If you want to "race", i'm struggling to think of better options than the tt02b....
This is what I get for writing a post at 4am. "Baby's first race car". The ideal is a car they can confidently use in the driveway, and show up and participate in sportsman or even a "tt02b" class.

Originally Posted by tygertyger View Post
For a 500$ starting package I would look at one of the Hobbyking TeamC rebrands (BZ444).
I am willing to keep an open mind about a lot of things but... a TT02B? That's just throwing money out the window, period.
First, they're discontinued, but that highlights another problem. If you want a long lived class, it needs to be a long lived chassis. There's some Quanam cars, but where are you going to get parts for it? The TT02 is.. old... and also still in production with new parts. And there's no sign of the TT02 being replaced anytime soon. I won't argue that the TT02b is something you can "grow" with, but it's cheap, available, and well supported in the US.

Also many of the TT02's come with ESC and Motor, so you're starting well there.

Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
Iím a bit confused by the question. But Iíll take a shot. Having yet to try any form off off road racing. What about going with a smaller scale to start with. The Associated 1/14 Reflex or Losi mimi8 as a starter class.
Original tires didnít last long. Didnít expect them to. Mini8 desert buggy tires. I donít see these wearing out any time soon.
The bumps, jumps, and other features of r/c tracks are setup for 1/10 scale cars. I've tried smaller scale cars, and it makes them wildly unpredictable. Going smaller scale also means using different batteries, often different connectors, and makes finding servos, escs, and other things... more tricky.

I hadn't looked in a while, but $300 RTR.. that's cheaper than traxxas. Losi: 22S ST Brushless RTR, AVC, Blue/Silver: 1/10 2WD: Losi (LOS03017T2) And being a stadium truck, you get around the noisy/ugly/disposable 1/8th scale body problem. (and things like this, are why I post threads like this..)

Originally Posted by 1/8 IC Fan View Post
So, I will chime in here a bit. Is this to be a thread based on a Slash vs. TT02-B, or trying to figure out what is a good class for young kids (or something else)? Just trying to see where this is to go.
It's something of a mental exercise. I really, really, dislike SCTs. I miss stadium trucks. I think buggies are cool. The "start" of the discussion is Slash versus TT02b, but the point is "how do we get people racing?" not just kids. Having something cool to drive should be high on that list. The Slash means you can only consider trucks cool. The TT02b gives you the plasma edge, neo scorcher, and dual ridge bodies right off the bat. And if you want a truck body on there, it's just a few body posts away.

Now.. i'm thinking about that Losi 22...





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Old 05-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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For $500 and nothing second hand.... I'd say that's a tough budget and unrealisitc

To get there I'd suggest a new last-generation kit and then cheap hobbyking gear for everything else.

T5M Kit- $249
Trackstar ESC/17.5 Motor Combo - $74.25
GT2B Transmitter- $25.07
Goteck DC1511S Servo- $27.42
Turnigy 4200mah 2S2P Lipo- $38.84....
Total of $415.57 with some left over for basic tools, charger, pinion, paint etc.

It's not going to be pretty or even a good idea but if you view it all as replaceable parts then this would be a cheaper way to get into it with a quality chassis.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:50 AM
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I guess the smaller sized batteries could be considered an small issue. I’d still like to give the Reflex a shot. See it on something like UltraFast. Now a place like Impact, I could see the size being a problem. Hopefully I’ll get a chance

I doubt the average buyer even knows Tamiya has an off road. I’ve never seen one. Or rarely even give that brand a thought.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:11 AM
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There are often little to no restrictions on novic classes, so im not sure you need to specifically restrict or select a car. Where you race and what they race will place much more immediate restrictions on this answer. Indoor? Out? On/off road? Nitro electric?

The slash gets recommended a lot because it's durable, cheap, upgradable, and competes well in a common class of racing (SCT). Parts and support are everywhere.

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Old 05-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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In Germany they run the Tamiya Fighter Cup series, very basic, they run on dirt and on asphalt.

https://www.tamiya.de/de/events-cups...a-fighter-cup/


Asphalt Race:

Offroad.

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Old 05-15-2019, 11:32 AM
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I think that the track is going to play into this quite a bit. Both of my young kids started out with an Associated RTR SCT. When they ran on bigger outdoor tracks, the other kids 90% of the time were running a Slash and it was all pretty even footing. When we ran on a carpet track, my kids looked at it as a free race because the Slash drivers just couldn't make it work as well on the tight high traction surface since nobody really did any setup or changes. When my daughter had a few races under her belt and moved to a TLR 22 4.0 on carpet it ate the SCT's alive as long as she kept it clean.

All that being said, when my other kids are ready to race, they'll inherit the same AE SCT, because it just worked. It forgives mistakes, I don't have to care about the body(I added mesh drywall tape and shoe goo to the inside...it could survive being run over by a tank after that change) and I don't have to worry about the tires, setup, etc., because the stock stuff will all run "Good enough" for a novice on pretty much every surface we've taken it to.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroomed View Post
For $500 and nothing second hand.... I'd say that's a tough budget and unrealisitc

To get there I'd suggest a new last-generation kit and then cheap hobbyking gear for everything else.


It's not going to be pretty or even a good idea but if you view it all as replaceable parts then this would be a cheaper way to get into it with a quality chassis.
While.. not a terrible idea. This does run into the "mail order, multiple vendors" thing that gets scary, complicated and difficult. TT02b, or heck, even the Losi 22, you can walk into the local horizon hobby dealer and walk out the same day with your car. I'd be a lot more "ok" with a "here's the amazon links, prime will have it to you by friday" type thing.

Unrealistic is a problem. And one we may need to talk to the industry about. If people can't get in at a reasonable price, we're screwed.

Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
I guess the smaller sized batteries could be considered an small issue. *snip* Iíve never seen one. Or rarely even give that brand a thought.
The "not normal" size components means you can't just grab an anything and go. It also means if you buy a good ESC, or battery, or servo, you can't take it with you when you move on.

You did last Saturday. Twice. :-) I had my TRF201, and my TT02b out on the track.

Originally Posted by jon003 View Post
The slash gets recommended a lot because it's durable, cheap, upgradable, and competes well in a common class of racing (SCT). Parts and support are everywhere.
I'd argue with durable, SCT's just aren't. I'd argue with upgradable. The problems with the slash are intrinsic to the truck, and there's not much getting around it. They're also the poster child for trying to do to much with a small car. If broken chassis are a common thing (and they are with slashes..) you've done something very wrong on the manufacturer side. Traxxas just pulled themselves out of hobbytown/horizon which... means parts are going to be a lot more difficult. And, it bears repeating, they're huge cars. And they're in what I consider to be a trash class. They're really good for selling parts.....
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:42 AM
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The "not normal" size components means you can't just grab an anything and go. It also means if you buy a good ESC, or battery, or servo, you can't take it with you when you move on.

You did last Saturday. Twice. :-) I had my TRF201, and my TT02b out on the

If I get back I’ll have to pay closer attention. Honestly didn’t notice.

True. Can’t usually take 1/14 electronics to 1/10. But, for most part if one is moving up from a “starter” class they usually don’t. Planning to just move the electronics to a better vehicle has been part of the “ just buy an XRay” thing for long time. At least on the on road side.

Whats this about Traxxas pulling out of Hobbytown? I don’t spend much time at store recently. Hadn’t heard anything about it.

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Old 05-15-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 1/8 IC Fan View Post
In Germany they run the Tamiya Fighter Cup series, very basic, they run on dirt and on asphalt.

https://www.tamiya.de/de/events-cups...a-fighter-cup/


Asphalt Race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZh-c_8xd_w
I love my DT-02, I can beat the crap out of it, and it keeps coming back for more. And I've built a DT-03. They work great, but are harder to find in the US. They're dollar to value proposition is less than with a TT02b based car. And you can reasonably expect to find a TT02b on the shelf at the local hobby shop. I can't remember ever seeing a DT based car on the wall at the local shops. 4wd also improves the cars utility as a basher, and "fun when not at the track".

.... I say that, but I should show you what the bottom of my DT-02 looks like. *grins*
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
While.. not a terrible idea. This does run into the "mail order, multiple vendors" thing that gets scary, complicated and difficult. TT02b, or heck, even the Losi 22, you can walk into the local horizon hobby dealer and walk out the same day with your car. I'd be a lot more "ok" with a "here's the amazon links, prime will have it to you by friday" type thing.

Unrealistic is a problem. And one we may need to talk to the industry about. If people can't get in at a reasonable price, we're screwed.
.
If making an online order from two major online hobby stores is scary, complicated and difficult then assembling a kit might not be right for the person you have in mind either.

There is a price premium for being able to purchase in a store and get advice and guidance. Buying second hand gear from someone at the local club is the other way to do this and also gets people involved in the community. Also it saves the more intimidating step of assembling the car.

I think just let novices run whatever they want within reason. I think the Slash fills the gap that you are trying to describe. It's fine if you don't like them, or if others don't either- they can run what they like too!

The fighter cup in Germany does also look like a fun, cost effective way to get people involved, and they're slow enough to learn some skills too.
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