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got 1st kit - please help with components

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got 1st kit - please help with components

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Old 05-08-2019, 08:45 PM
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Default got 1st kit - please help with components

Hello everyone. Please help me complete my kit

So my new XRAY XB8E'19 will be here in the next couple of days. I need to pick a motor, esc, servo, radio and receiver. I know nothing about RC cars (zero), this will be my first, ever. I tried RC Helicopters (just one) about 8 yrs ago or so, and it was very cool. Never managed a successful flight, so it has been collecting dust ever since - lol. The point is I know a little about RC building, and I am pretty sure none of the heli's components (Kontronik Jive, Scorpion, Demon HC3SX, MKS servos, Radio etc) are suitable for use in the buggy - apparently.

Anyway, if the XB8E descriptions included recommendations for compatible electronics, I could make some decisions, possibly. For parameters, I have few. It will be 6S lipo powered, and quality & performance is all I care about. The not so simple question is; For this particular buggy, which 'top-shelf' motor, servo and esc would you select? Maybe easier, what size/format/form-factor do I need for each of those items (I.e. how much servo torque)?

Your opinions and time will be greatly appreciated!
-Mike

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Old 05-08-2019, 09:44 PM
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In my Xb8 I run:

Hitec 7950 servo. Maybe the brushless coreless version would be a touch faster. Like the 9370. 200oz 7940 speed servos maybe too weak. They usually work fine. 400oz torque servos are often a touch slow. But have so much torque they don't slow down under load like a speed servo. The 9370 is somewhere in the middle.

Smc 2100 motor and a 4s battery. Sometimes two 2S lipos. 6s is just not going to be worth it. The car is setup for 4s.
An internal bullet plug pack like this:
https://www.amainhobbies.com/protek-...SABEgL0SfD_BwE

Hobbywing SCT Pro esc. With a Tekin RX8 in my parts box for a backup.
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Old 05-09-2019, 01:34 AM
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my first question. are you racing or bashing?

this will determinant the direction we point you.

sense your looking at 6s ill guess bashing. (we race on 4s)

Obviously you'll need a radio
im a Futaba guy but i admit Sanwa radios are a tad better.
for bashing id recommend
3pl(futaba)
3pv(futaba)much better

if you budget tight
3prka(futaba) will get the job done but you'll be wanting more if you ever get a more rc cars.

if you want more much more and the budget allows
4pv(futaba)
4pls(futaba)
4grs(futaba) if you want stick

if you have money to burn
4px(futaba)
7px(futaba)

there are other very go radio brands out there like hitec, spectrum,flysky(ok) and many more.

motors
for 6s you should be looking at a 1400kv motor, you can find 2200 6s motors senseless but thats a bit extreme for your platform on 6s. 1/8 scale motor
for a cheap motor hobbyking.com will get you by just fine. there Turnigy batteries are also good i run them in all my cars. but buy nothing else from them it's most likely junk.
other motor manufactures are tekin, castle, hobbywing(42XX sized), teamtrinity(d8.5s), dynamite fuze 1/8.

most of my motors are tekin.

speed controllers
you should be looking at
tekin "rx8 gen3"
hobbywing "xerun xr8 plus" or "ezrun max8"
there are others but i know there reliable, tekin is a smother more programmable but cost more. hobbywing cant bet the price point.


servos servo servos....
well thers too many to list. ima fan of the hitec 93xx series and well there salty. very very salty.

hitec, savox, futaba, tekin, bla, bla, bla. justa about everyone and there mom makes a servo
for bashing 350oz to 400oz with a cheaper($wise) will gerently you plunty of life in your servo. if you step in the $100 range you could sacrafice oz torq for speed as there builded more stout. i would go bellow 277oz~ with
out stepping in to a full brush-less servo. but for bashing id lean to torq always.

lipos
lipos 5000mah range batteries will do you fine with out kill the bank. trunigy and smc will do the job id go with a xt60, xt90, or ec5. the T-style connector and the traxxas aren't as high amp rated an can prematurely fall. the 5mm bullets well there rated high enoff, but the problem in charging and usage. charging you'll have to make your own charging leads not that big of a problem until your making 7 balancing leads and plugin them in right every time not hard but time consuming. the real problem is the 5 mm bullets they soften over time and loos good conductivity not a big deal till you realize this creates heat and it located right next to the battery will kill your battery. yes 5 mm bullets will do this they just take longer the 4 mm.

tires a nobby tire like badlands will serve you great on most surfaces. on-road you'll want something different. the track what ever tire is preferred

gearing well im not sure. id start maybe with a 48 spur and a 12 tooth pinion.... but your not over volt-aging the motor so maybe a the stock spur and 13 or 14 tooth pinion. don't know.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:02 AM
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Alright! So I checked out those suggestions and they are spot on. Thank you guys, very very very very helpful

Bashing - 99% I can't see doing any racing but who knows...

Speed controller & Motor - That Tekin RX8 Gen3 for sure, paired with a T8 Gen3 motor looks good for me - Not sure if I can put a Truggy size in the buggy or just get the buggy size. Also not decided on where to land on 'kv'. It will be in the 1900 - 1350 range I'm guessing (selecting 3040 vs 3048 will narrow the 'kv' choice for me). I am thinking a little larger will be run cooler if it fits?

Battery-wise, less of a challenge here. Great to know I can go with 6s (I see that now). I want 6s because; I have 1300W of power backing a Power Lab conditioning/charging unit with balance board and parallel charging loom rigged-up for 6 batts (ya I can make or buy connectors for 4s and the balance board accommodates all types). I would think the lower KV will run cooler with the higher voltages/lower amp, run time?

Radio! - huge thanks there. Choices are more confusing but I think it will be the Fut 4PV and some receiver variant. The Spek DX5Pro caught my eye when I was looking around. I have a DX8 which is fine and trouble free albeit a little cryptic and inexpensive.

Servos will be tough, Maybe a coin flip. Great to know to shoot for something approaching the 400oz torque. Can you have too much torque? Nice to need only one servo. I seem to be drawn to MKS X6 HBL599 because I had the brand in the past, or a Tekin T 300 or 440 because the ESC will be that brand. I am not committed though.

Well, I feel like a got a handle on this stuff thanks to you gents, again huge thanks! If you have any comments on my responses, of course they are welcome. I would appreciate the vetting!

Cheers,
Mike
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by metalmike View Post
Hello everyone. Please help me complete my kit

So my new XRAY XB8E'19 will be here in the next couple of days. I need to pick a motor, esc, servo, radio and receiver. I know nothing about RC cars (zero), this will be my first, ever. I tried RC Helicopters (just one) about 8 yrs ago or so, and it was very cool. Never managed a successful flight, so it has been collecting dust ever since - lol. The point is I know a little about RC building, and I am pretty sure none of the heli's components (Kontronik Jive, Scorpion, Demon HC3SX, MKS servos, Radio etc) are suitable for use in the buggy - apparently.

Anyway, if the XB8E descriptions included recommendations for compatible electronics, I could make some decisions, possibly. For parameters, I have few. It will be 6S lipo powered, and quality & performance is all I care about. The not so simple question is; For this particular buggy, which 'top-shelf' motor, servo and esc would you select? Maybe easier, what size/format/form-factor do I need for each of those items (I.e. how much servo torque)?

Your opinions and time will be greatly appreciated!
-Mike
Mike,

I am in a similar boat to you, but haven't decided on the kit yet. I am leaning towards the Tekno RC EB48.4 4WD - it seems to be the best bang for the buck. With the $25 AMain coupon, it can be had for $525 shipped. Wondering why you decided on the XRAY?

I am still looking at the radios, but am leaning towards the Futaba 4PLS - again it seems to be the best bang for the buck. With the $15 AMain coupon, it can be had with a receiver for $175.

Still working on the rest. I did just buy an Acopian W48GT25 power supply from ebay for the whatever DC based charger I end up with.
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Old 05-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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Welcome to the RC club Garet and Mike!!

Sounds like you guys are both headed in the right direction,
My only 2cents, ...buy quality name brand parts (avoid the cheap eBay Chinese knock-offs). Sure you can get an ESC on eBay for $16, but there is no comparison to a quality ESC (pretty much anything at AMain will be a good brand). Same for motor, controller, servos, build tools,...all parts. Doesn't sound like either of you are doing this, yet want to offer that.
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Old 05-10-2019, 06:14 AM
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Damn. Well that is aggravating. I had written an extensive reply - detailed comments, explanations, questions and expressions of gratitude. It wouldn't post right away because it needed to be approved. That is why I hadn't responded sooner, I couldn't post.

Well now it seems like I can post, but my detailed response has magically vanished and I simply don't have the will to try to recreate it or craft another. Sorry.

The short form is as follows, but first you guys must know that I am extremely grateful for the guidance! Thank you very very much!!

So here is what I am thinking so far.

Futaba 4PV radio
MKS-HBL599 Servo
Tekin RX8-G3 w/ Redline T8-G3 Motor for 6s not sure on 1350kV, 1550kV, 1700kV (truggy can/size if it fits)

As to why the Xray over Tekno, the Tekno seems 'pedestrian' to me. No other reason.

Charger-wise - very happy with Power Labs.

Thanks again gents!!!
Mike
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Old 05-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by metalmike View Post
Damn. Well that is aggravating. I had written an extensive reply - detailed comments, explanations, questions and expressions of gratitude. It wouldn't post right away because it needed to be approved. That is why I hadn't responded sooner, I couldn't post.

Well now it seems like I can post, but my detailed response has magically vanished and I simply don't have the will to try to recreate it or craft another. Sorry.

The short form is as follows, but first you guys must know that I am extremely grateful for the guidance! Thank you very very much!!

So here is what I am thinking so far.

Futaba 4PV radio
MKS-HBL599 Servo
Tekin RX8-G3 w/ Redline T8-G3 Motor for 6s not sure on 1350kV, 1550kV, 1700kV (truggy can/size if it fits)

As to why the Xray over Tekno, the Tekno seems 'pedestrian' to me. No other reason.

Charger-wise - very happy with Power Labs.

Thanks again gents!!!
Mike
As Zerodefect stated:

There is really no reason to go 6S on an 1:8 buggy, 4S gives you plenty of performance and speed, if anything it will become a Pain in the rear! It was designed for a 4S setup after all.

The advice of most given is based on what we know and have experience with.
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Old 05-10-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 1/8 IC Fan View Post
As Zerodefect stated:

There is really no reason to go 6S on an 1:8 buggy, 4S gives you plenty of performance and speed, if anything it will become a Pain in the rear! It was designed for a 4S setup after all.

The advice of most given is based on what we know and have experience with.
I appreciate this comment and I am happy to reassess and change direction. I am not hearing anything on "why" 6s is bad. Just that it is a pain or expensive and no gain. How is 6s a pain? Or, why is 4s better? I am not even trying to achieve insane speeds and on-the-ground-performance is the least of my worries - I am inexperienced.

Also, it seems that even if I go 6s, my motor and esc selection doesn't necessarily change, nothing related to equipment selection does. Is that true? For example, if I get buy what is noted, then with 4s my kV is low. Bigger pinion or smaller spur could compensate - or not really?? [for a hundred buck I could get another motor in the case of regret].

Why I was planning 6s:
Charging station does 6 * 6s packs in parallel in minutes (ya I can a loom for 4s and the balance board accommodates all cell counts- no big deal)
Lower Kv, lower temps, lower amps, more runtime..? I could be wrong about that.

I am just winging it here so your comments, and teaching are appreciated!!

thanks.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:25 AM
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No, you're on the right track. And correct, if this was an airplane, or the year 2008.

But the form factor, weight, and quality available batteries for cars, hover around four cell packs. We tried 5 and 6 cell packs years ago, and eventually 4s reigned supreme.

I select a kv that's similar to nitro in rpm. Use a lower kv motor with 6s, higher with 4s. Fine tune with the pinion.
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Old 05-10-2019, 12:58 PM
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when people here some one is going 6s often it associated with taking a 4s or 3s motor and over-voltage it with 6s thro it in a light weight car and send it to the moon.

when comparing a properly sides-ed 4s setup and 6s
example
2050 4s setup
vs
1400 6s setup

we actually don't see any advantages all things the same. accept for lower amp pull on the battery. the motor still has the same top speed and torq. we're just not running a heavier more expensive setup

the real issues arise in the fact that we can more easily over gear a 1400 6s system with less negative issues. the fact of the matter is are rc car are only engineered to go so fast 40ish depending on the car and tire. beyond that are car experienced excessive wear and tear. loss in handling

these issues are most note when comparing
2050 4S
vs
2050 6S

with all things being the same we see an noticeably a increase in amp draw, speed, torq, wear and tear. the speedo and motor also see increased heat. re-gearing can correct some of the issues but often shifts the problems around.

the main reason tho we use 4s over 6s system is we get less fresh faces not knowing what there doing. and building a rocket, hurting someone on the track. because there car goes 60-80mph and not the 30ish everyone else goes. its also far easier to go 30ish around the track.
i mean if you think about it your tires only have so much traction and the realy fast guys ride that rail like a high way. i how ever can not.
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:29 PM
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Not as detailed an explanation, but from my own personal experience over powering a car will present serious handling issues. Most likely you'll have trouble controlling the vehicle as the wheels balloon up, and even if you can control that you'll have serious issues w the rear kicking out just from the shear power. You could always turn down the throttle though if your set on getting a 6s power system.

again, must my 2cents on this..
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:01 PM
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There we go. That's sounds more than reasonable. There doesn't seem to be any empirical detriment to running 6s, nothing quantifiable with numbers and specs anyway. It is more qualitative preference - opinion and observation. Not that those are less meaningful. I will consider 4s. Perhaps there is a benefit in weight or discharge rates.... I like EC5 connectors but that's fun to remedy with the Hakko Seems like a 1400kV Tekin T8 G3 will be nice with 6s if I'm bent on using 6s. It will be down to size and weight of equivalent 4s vs 6s run-time packs. I suspect it will be a wash.

I understand the relationship between mah and voltage, I think. In an ideal world ~35% less mah should result in similar run times between 4s and 6s (less amp consumption) - right? How discharge rates apply in 4s and 6s applications is something I don't thoroughly understand. I don't see any 6s packs that discharge at 100C+. Then again, I don't think any motors for 1/8 buggies will reach that either. Guess I should read-up on this...

Thanks again guys!
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Old 05-10-2019, 05:32 PM
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I'll refer you to Ohm's law and the others one as far as amp draw is concerned. But it's not that simple when motor are concern. As load changes, and ohms changes.

Volt=omhs*amps
Watt=volt*amps

I do want to note this all the tracks that I know of do limit ebuggys to 4s. And you would have trouble finding otherwise. Maybe a none race day but that depends on state laws in terms of liability they have that fall on them should an accident happen.
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Old 05-10-2019, 10:45 PM
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You have a completion race level buggy. They are designed to race on 4s. Also 4s is what you must run if you want to race it. 6s for the most part is only for insane speed runs of 70mph+. I as well as the majority people at the track run. 1900kv motor on 4s. For bashing or and speed runs I run a 2650kv on 6s. Can hit 80+mph but can be quite dangerous.

i run the hobbywing xr8 plus esc. Your Futaba 4pv is old. Your better off getting the Futaba 4pm. Itís about the same price and is newer and supports Futaba sr(super response mode). For servo I run the new Futaba cb700 and I run it on sr mode. Can be had for $150 online and itís top on the line. Super fast at .7 speed and crazy 681 oz of torque.
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