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-   -   Return to Racing Part 2 (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-off-road/1039113-return-racing-part-2-a.html)

CMadsen_24 03-16-2019 11:20 PM

Return to Racing Part 2
 
This is part 2 of my "returning to r/c racing" thread as I've gotten a few items but still need some final advice on a few things..

I went by my local shop today (LSR Speedway, Sacramento) and was able to pick up my Losi 22 5.0 SR kit, Reedy 17.5 Competition motor, and some tires (JConcepts Ellipse rear, Pro-Line Electron front) but I held off on the ESC, battery, and charger. I'm still unsure of what my best option is and what is too over-the-top. I don't want to spend a crazy amount of money, but I also don't want to sacrifice too much performance.

1) I would like to charge 2 batteries at once if I decide to run a 2nd class and/or my fiance decides to get her own car. Talking to some guys today, it seems a lot of them discharge at a high rate of 30-40 amps and charge at a high rate also. The track does allows for these.

2) I almost bought the Hobbywing Justock ESC but I figured I would do a little more research on it. Some guys said it was amazing, others said I would be much better of going a little higher up with a Hobbywing XR10 Pro Stock V4 ESC I'll be racing Pro-Stock 2wd buggy with a 17.5t motor and maybe sometimes a 13.5t motor. Nobody seemed to be running any of the Tekin products but I have been looking at the Tekin RS Gen 2 SPEC and the Tekin RS Gen 2 (Non Spec)

3) Batteries: I almost bought a Gens Ace 2S 100C Shorty, 7.6v 5500 Mah. The lady running the counter actually let me run her car with this battery, a Hobbywing ProStock V4, and the Reedy 17.5t motor, it went 15 minutes and felt pretty solid the whole time, but I'm totally unfamiliar with LiPo packs. It had decent power but somehow felt like it lacked a bit of punch. I was able to clear all the jumps and had great speed, but I really like my cars to be highly aggressive and almost so much power that I have to tune it down a bit.

I was looking at the "Muchmore 7.4v 5200 mah and the ProTek shorty 7.6v 5800 mah.

Thanks for the help through all of this, I can't tell you how excited I am to get driving again and how much I appreciate the input. Driving today was absolutely incredible and made me realize once again how much I love racing cars!

killer rock 03-17-2019 02:29 AM

My two cents
 
Great to hear you getting back in to racing.

I still run tekins esc in all my racing rigs, but over the past 4 years or so I've seen the gradulg switch to hobby wing. I've ask the other guys why they switched they've all told me that it comes down to price, there on par with other speed controller that cost 2 as much with similar reliable, and tuneability.

From my standpoint I haven't heard them complain about the esc or heard them have brake downs. And alot of them are faster them me.... but also that's not saying much.


Zerodefect 03-17-2019 05:40 AM

17.5 and ''punch'' ain't going to happen.

You can improve it by eliminating the slipper.

chuck_thehammer 03-17-2019 06:00 AM


Originally Posted by Zerodefect (Post 15415180)
17.5 and ''punch'' ain't going to happen.

You can improve it by eliminating the slipper.

I agree.. I removed my slipper on my SC5M...

I am a Tekin guy.. 17,5, and 10.5... Tekin RS controller. is 10 years old... gen one. I got it new. the 17.5 is the same ago.



Di_spencer 03-17-2019 06:01 AM

Charger: I would still go with the icharger 406, its lot of money but you won't ever need a new charger and it is super popular at most tracks

Esc: I would go with either the XR10 prostock or the Tekin RS Gen2, I and others have had great experience with the Justock but it seems to lack a little punch and breaking strength. I have used the tekin rs gen2 for years and I love it, it has worked flawlessly running 17.5 all the way down to a boosted 9.5 in a stadium truck. A buddy of mine runs the prostock as well and he really likes it. You can't go wrong with either one.

Batteries: I've had good luck with the protek batteries and heard really good things about them but I haven't personally tried many others. My next packs will personally be the protek 4900 120c packs though.
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Mahjik 03-17-2019 10:10 AM

The other nod for Tekin is that there is a representative of Tekin who frequents this forum. That helps if you have to work through any issues. I haven't seen anyone from Hobbywing on here (not that there isn't per say).

RC*PHREAK 03-17-2019 02:16 PM

keep in mind that if you do want to eventually do the high amp charge/discharge, that you won't be able to charge two batteries at once as one of the channels is used to discharge.

as far as esc, i would go with the XR10 pro stock. get the WiFi module and you can use your phone to program the esc. tons of adjustability and 7.2v BEC (this will allow you to take full advantage if you buy an HV servo and will spin your motor fan faster for better cooling).

for the batteries, the gens ace RS 5500's are very nice batteries. the protek's may have just a tad more punch as they are slightly higher quality. for the money, the gens ace batteries are hard to beat.

Anthony.L 03-17-2019 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by CMadsen_24 (Post 15415126)
1) I would like to charge 2 batteries at once if I decide to run a 2nd class and/or my fiance decides to get her own car. Talking to some guys today, it seems a lot of them discharge at a high rate of 30-40 amps and charge at a high rate also. The track does allows for these.

The 17.5 stock racers looking for every little edge are charging/discharging at 30-40amps. If you want a charger that can charge two batteries at once and/or capable of those rates then pony up for the iCharger 406duo. Buy once, cry once when it comes to chargers.


Originally Posted by CMadsen_24 (Post 15415126)
2) I almost bought the Hobbywing Justock ESC but I figured I would do a little more research on it. Some guys said it was amazing, others said I would be much better of going a little higher up with a Hobbywing XR10 Pro Stock V4 ESC I'll be racing Pro-Stock 2wd buggy with a 17.5t motor and maybe sometimes a 13.5t motor. Nobody seemed to be running any of the Tekin products but I have been looking at the Tekin RS Gen 2 SPEC and the Tekin RS Gen 2 (Non Spec)

I've been racing Tekin electronics for 30 years so I'm a little partial. Hobbywing, for the price point, make a really good product. I would recommend you at least step up from the Justock ESC. Tekin RS Pro BE or RSX PRO. If you want to go with Hobbywing then the XR10 Pro Stock or XR10 Pro 160.


Originally Posted by CMadsen_24 (Post 15415126)
3) Batteries: I almost bought a Gens Ace 2S 100C Shorty, 7.6v 5500 Mah. The lady running the counter actually let me run her car with this battery, a Hobbywing ProStock V4, and the Reedy 17.5t motor, it went 15 minutes and felt pretty solid the whole time, but I'm totally unfamiliar with LiPo packs. It had decent power but somehow felt like it lacked a bit of punch. I was able to clear all the jumps and had great speed, but I really like my cars to be highly aggressive and almost so much power that I have to tune it down a bit.

I've been very happy with the Gens Ace packs, they have great performance for the price point. Personally I think anything over 4000mah for stock racing is overkill. Just extra charging and weight for zero use.

Racer56556 03-18-2019 09:31 AM

I would go with a icharger 406 this is what I have , It is expensive but it is defiantly worth the price and you wont need to upgrade down the road . Have herd good things about the icharger x6 witch is a lot cheaper but I dont have any experience with it . I run 2 classes on club nights and 3 classes at larger events and only use one side of the charger (other side has a discharge bank plugged in) . I never have a problem getting my stuff charged quick enough . I also use hobbywing xr10 pro-stock esc's in my stuff . They work very good and have plenty of adjustment . I also have a justock I have used and keep around as a spare (haven't needed it since switching to all hobbywing) It works fine but you cant fine tune it like you can with the xr10 pro-stock . I used to be a tekin fan and had the esc's and motors in all my cars, I like some of the features they offer but I had reliability issues (but I know lots of people who have no problems) so I switched to hobbywing . The Gensace batterys will work fine but you will get a little better performance out of a protek or reedy in my opinion . Also a 4900 will work fine no need for the extra capacity . I have raced and won 10 min mains in 17.5 buggy with a 4900 with no issues and use that size battery in my 13.5 4w and 13.5/17.5 Stadium truck. Also I would suggest a different front tire like a JC dirt web or a raw speed stg 2 . The elecreon front can be an aggressive tire once it breaks in and in my opinion it is not a very consistent tire , meaning the traction level changes more drastically than the tires I mentioned throughout its life . This can lead a less experanced driver down the path of thinking they have a setup issue when reality its just the tire .

Alexv2024 03-18-2019 09:52 AM

I love my 4010 icharger. Built in 18a discharger and capable of 40a with an external bank in addition to the 40a charging. But lately I've been charging at 20a because my cars have had plenty of punch and 40a charging does shorten your life. I upgraded from a Hitec x2 charger and feel like the Icharger takes care of the batteries health better. As in the last longer and work better in general. If you want to save money and are handy you can convert a server power supply for $20 instead of paying $90 for someone else doing it for you.

I don't know what you're comparing punch too but if you run a 13.5 or 7.5 then try a 17.5 of course it'll be slow. All of our current stuff is WAY more powerful than the old brushed stuff we used to run (I raced from 2000-2007 and got back into it in 2017). Stock motors are tricky. Some times going to a larger pinion increases punch and top speed, to a certain point. Fans are usually required to keep the motors alive.

Also I had two Gens ace 5500's fail on me this month that were new in January. As in internal cell connections resulting in one pack that has 0v after 5 laps and the other pack hit voltage cut after 3 minuets and had a full charge. Punch was great. It didn't have the initial crazy punch of the Muchmore packs I used to run but it also didn't fade like the muchmores after they got about 50 cycles on them. I bought the 5500's because my friend loaned me a 5000 older gens ace pack that did exactly as the 5500 did just slightly lower punch and higher IR's.

I replaced them with the new Reedy 4800 and 5800's. I don't expect them to have any issues and they've been good so far. I'd recommend a trinity lipo factory 4300 for a cheaper battery or maybe a Zeee 4600 for the ultra cheap end, but buyer beware with that. Probably less failure rates than GA though from other stuff I've heard.

Currently I run AE stuff. B6.1 and B64 with hobby wing 120a v3.1 and orion HMX both with reedy S+ stock motors on raw speed tires. I switched from TLR stuff right before the 5.0 came out and don't regret it at all. Just to give you an idea of my over all setup.

Cain 03-18-2019 08:45 PM

I would say for stock racing, a battery closer to the lower 4000mah range like the 4100mah packs from Protek would give you a nice weight savings with more than enough mah even when charged to the 8.4V limit (assuming you are running that by you). I am also a fan of promatch batteries. Great packs for the money. A good all around pack mah size though would be the 4900mah like someone else mentioned. I am rocking fat boy 6000mah packs for now but will probably make the switch this summer once we know what we are doing for our classes.

I would agree that an bit higher end ESC like the Tekin Gen2 or Hobbywings XR10 Pro-stock ESCs will give you more options. I believe both of those ESCs offer high voltage BECs, which I would want at a minimum personally. If you are going high end but focusing specifically on stock, the Tekin RS Pro Black Edition would offer that to you. As I am unsure here what we are doing for classes, I went with all Tekin RSX Pros. Bit more flexibility. Before that change, I ran all Hobbywing XR10 pros and then before that Maclan MMax Pros, with some Picos for the kids

As for the hobbywing xr10 just stock, we swapped to a better capacitor and that helped with punch and breaking with that ESC. Funny thing is, for the money there is a quicrun esc that appears to be the older V2 model of the hobbywing pro speedo that is about the same price. So on the cheap, it could be much better than the xr10 juststock if you want options for hot motors.

As for charger I would also recommend the Icharger line too. Been quite happy with mine even though I don't do much of the high charge / discharge cycling as haven't found a need at this time. but its nice to have the option.

As for motors lots of options out there. So far first runs on the Tekin Spec-R I have been happy with it. On the cheap my previous motor the Surpass V4S was quite nice, very torquey. Maclans V2 was also a nice motor too. Lots of options there..

CMadsen_24 03-29-2019 07:59 PM

OK guys I'm just about done with getting everything I need but I wanted a few more opinions on a couple items.

1) Charger. For me it's come down to the iCharger 406 Duo or the ProTek Prodigy 625 Duo. I love that Protek offers a ac/dc charger and goes up to 20 amps. I really don't feel the need to push my batteries for more. The power advantage of charging over 20 amps for 1 lap of burst speed doesn't seem worth my batteries life ending much quicker. I'd rather have longer battery life and just rely on my driving to win. I'd like to hear any arguments on why the icharger would be a better option but I'm really leaning towards the Protek 625 charger.

2) ESC. I'm having a tougher time choosing between the Hobbywing ProStock XR10 V4 and the Tekin RS Gen 2 Spec. The Tekin is $10 more but I'm focused on what gives me the advantage for expert stock 2wd buggy. They both seem awesome and just as competitive. Any opinions are welcome.

Thanks!

platgof 03-29-2019 08:43 PM

I use a HP750 power supply and two battery chargers, HK Reaktor 250 and 206B. I can charge 10 and 20 amps with this setup, and the price is right.

CMadsen_24 03-30-2019 10:38 PM

I'm feeling more and more comfortable with getting the Protek charger just because I don't plan on charging at extreme amps, I'm not even sure I would want to go up to 20 amps. The ESC is where I'm having the biggest dilemma. I'll only be running 17.5t expert stock (possibly the occasional 13.5t) and I want the fastest, smoothest, and best braking ESC. I don't really need something with a million programmable setups to do via usb or whatever, just something that straight up is the best overall for speed, braking, and reliability.

Alexv2024 03-31-2019 08:58 PM

If you're going to be competitive in expert stock you'll eventually want to charge at higher amps. At least 20, its a good compromise between longevity and punch. 40a does reduce longevity but I still get an easy 100-200 charges out of new packs. Id say 300+ but I've been buying used packs (and not really tracking over all useage) until this year.

Also I think Ichargers take better care of your batteries no matter the charge amps. I first used a hitec charger in 2016 and once I started using an icharger my IR's dropped and my packs felt punchier even at low amps. I'd recommend a 308 or a 406, and if you're even slightly handy converting a server power supply is really easy. I spent $15 on mine.

As for esc Id get a hobbywing 80a. I have the 120a v3.1 but the cheaper/newer has more adjustments and still can run 13.5 easily. I do run mod occasionally so I got the 120a. Best bang for the buck esc's for sure. Either one is a good choice.


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