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Old 02-28-2006, 03:49 PM   #1
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Default 1/8 buggy tuning

I have a few questions regarding the tuning and dialing in of the every popular 1/8 scale buggies. My first question is that I just cant get past is.....why does no one seem to experiment with using different springs front to rear? In every other level and scale racing we do..we try multiple spring combonations to get the car how we want it...why not in buggy?
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:23 PM   #2
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Mostly due to the mass of the buggies. Keep in mind that the buggy springs come in sets (soft, med, hard etc..) but the front and rear are neither the same length or rate. On high bite indoor tracks it is more common to see mixed sets. Mugen guys like the hard white springs on the rear in those conditions for instance.
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:23 PM   #3
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almost all the pros use some combos sometimes and so does evryone else i know so what is this point cody king for example used different spring front and rear-----------
Cody King - 777 SP2 setup 2006 Nitro Challenge

Surface: Wet loamy - megatraction

Front
-------
5000 diff oil
shock oil: TL 60w
white pistons (1.4)
dark blue SP2 springs
shock positions: middle hole in tower/inside on arm
22* caster block/camber link in middle hole
Short upper arm (IF-329) with long ball cup
L & A block
std sway bar/balls all the way out
arms well above level
steering in middle hole on ackerman plate
droop slightly limited
-2* camber/2*toe out

Center
--------
7000 diff oil
46 tooth spur/13 tooth bell
Yall thick fiber brake discs
3 shoe clutch - 2 carbon, 1 aluminum - 1.0 springs


Rear
------
1400 diff oil
shock oil: AE 30w
White pistons (1.4)
std rear sway bar/balls all the way out
2 deg anti squat
3 deg toe
hubs 2/3 forward
camber link long and in lower hole on tower
shock positions: middle hole in tower/inside on arm
light blue SP1 springs
arms just above level
droop slightly limited
-2* camber
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:28 PM   #4
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ahhh well then. I knew the springs were different rates front to back even though they were both soft or the same color. But I still couldnt let that be enought to justify why someone would go thru changing their rear diff fluid then trying a softer/harder spring.
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:50 PM   #5
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OK I have question for you guys. Is there an upgrade from an SP1 to an SP2 and is the SP2 the most recent kit?

Thanks
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Old 02-28-2006, 07:22 PM   #6
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Yes there is an update from SP1 to SP2 and yes the SP2 is the most recent.

Later,
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin rc10
ahhh well then. I knew the springs were different rates front to back even though they were both soft or the same color. But I still couldnt let that be enought to justify why someone would go thru changing their rear diff fluid then trying a softer/harder spring.
lol having different springs harder or softer has nothing to do with the way your rear diff would work with different fluids and the way the buggy would handle both have different functions and are necessery and hey they were not the same color lol light blue and dark blue are different,basically shock functions and diff functions are totally different ,i dont feel like posting the differences now couse you should have done some reading by looking at your first post you didnt even realize that it takes a lot to set up a buggy just like a real scale car and thought that evryone usues same springs all the way around most of the time ,and you said that you cant justify why some would go through changing the rear diff fluids and also changing the spring ,logically this tells me that you dont know the difference between one and the other ,so can you honestly tell me the differences and functions of a differential and a function of a shock and the difference between the 2 ,which to most is obvious but i want you to read about the 2 and see why they are both beneficial and both have diffferent affects on the buggy one is the diff has absolutely nothing to do with suspension but definetly handling ,traction ,and power output to the wheels not busting your balls or anything just trying to see if you reall know the difference .
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:45 AM   #8
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Thanks Crash,

Do you have part # for the upgrade kit and do know how much the kit would run??

Thanks
Kevin Boyle
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgtman
lol having different springs harder or softer has nothing to do with the way your rear diff would work with different fluids and the way the buggy would handle both have different functions and are necessery and hey they were not the same color lol light blue and dark blue are different,basically shock functions and diff functions are totally different ,i dont feel like posting the differences now couse you should have done some reading by looking at your first post you didnt even realize that it takes a lot to set up a buggy just like a real scale car and thought that evryone usues same springs all the way around most of the time ,and you said that you cant justify why some would go through changing the rear diff fluids and also changing the spring ,logically this tells me that you dont know the difference between one and the other ,so can you honestly tell me the differences and functions of a differential and a function of a shock and the difference between the 2 ,which to most is obvious but i want you to read about the 2 and see why they are both beneficial and both have diffferent affects on the buggy one is the diff has absolutely nothing to do with suspension but definetly handling ,traction ,and power output to the wheels not busting your balls or anything just trying to see if you reall know the difference .

Ok you SERIOUSLY mis-understood me. Maybe I was a bit confusing with the way I worded it. I have lots of insight about how a car works and about setting one up. My second post was supposed to sound more or less like this. I dont see why anyone would go thru changing their diff fluid (alot more difficult than changing a spring) when they could change their springs and get the same general effect. Although its true a spring change would change other aspects to the car such as jumping and bump handling but Ive never had a car that didnt jump good no matter what springs were used. So why is it that people are willing to crack open a diff case and clean and refill a diff, instead of throwing a harder spring on the rear of car to get it to handle differently?
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:55 AM   #10
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The rear diff fluid has a different effect than the spring. For instance a harder rear spring should improve on and off-power steering. A thicker rear diff will take away off-power steering and make on-power steering more predictable when sliding the rear end around corners. Some might say the car has more on-power steering this way.
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Old 03-01-2006, 07:07 AM   #11
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So is the effect of a spring change just un-desireable? I wouldnt have a huge problem understanding that some adjustments just have more negative effects than positives. I have just been curious about this for a while. And trying to learn all the adjustments on these cars is a little harder than most. Ive asked a and read a million things and gotten a million answers. All I can do is go out and test stuff and see what each adjustment really does on the car.
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Old 03-01-2006, 07:56 AM   #12
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RC10 here are some notes for ya on diff oil.

Diff Oil explanation

1st remember and this is all you have to remember is that a diff's job
is to transfer torque to the side of the diff with the least amount of
traction, ie least amount of weight transfered, ie least amount of
traction (This is opposite a torsen by the way).

Center diff fluid:
Say you accelerate, weight transfers towards the rear (your buggy
squats - how much depending on several factors such as rear antisquat
plate, how hard you are on the gas, etc), a center diff with very light
oil will "diff" more towards the front to try to balance the load and
stabilize the buggy. This is great on a slick or maybe a tight track
where you want to feel the front diff pulling your car a little more
and keep you from "spinning out."

Now, say you put in very thick center diff oil in your center diff.
You accelerate, weight transfers towards the rear, a center diff with
very thick oil will "diff" less towards the front but will give you the
most torque at the rear of the buggy, ie more acceleration. This is
great for high bite tracks but on a slick track you may find your rear
end swinging around more.

BUT, straight line acceleration is but one aspect of a center diffs
purpose. Say you are on a track and you approach a woop section. a
car with very light fluid will transfer more torque to the front of the
buggy as soon as the front tires begin to loose contact with the apex
of the woop, hence your rear end feels less power and consequently the
front of your buggy's nose comes down nice and fast ready for the next
woop. your center diff is constantly "diffing" to keep the car
balanced through the woops. Now, if you had very thick oil in the
center, the nose of the buggy would come down a little slower because
it will not diff towards the front so fast. This can cause your buggy
to get out of shape easily because your front tires are not in contact
(think steering) as much with the ground.

Also, center diff oil can even depend on what engine you are running.
if you have an OD MOD, and you go too light on the center oil, you will
find your front tires ballooning to the point of almost flying off the
wheels down the straight away, so you may increase the center oil
weight a bit.

Ok, now for my 2 cents on front diff fluid. T
his will control torque transfer from the left to front tire and vice
versa.
Let's say you have very thick front center fluid and you exit a left
hand 180 on the gas. Your right front tire has the most traction and
hence, if you want the tightest steering, you would want most of the
torque to stay on that outside tire, and hence you would use heavier
front diff fluid. However, if you want more turnin (which happens at
the very beginning of the turn up until the point where your car has
transfered more weight to the outside tire), you could use lighter
front diff fluid.

BUT, the front diff is not just there for turning. Let's say you hit a
bump with only the left front tire of your car. With light front diff
fluid, more torque will transfer to the tire with the least amount of
traction than with thicker oil, ie the right tire starting to come off
the ground due to the chassis lifting, hence the front will stabilize
itself more than a car with thicker front diff fluid.

The rear diff follows the same principle of the front diff.

I know this was long and boring and winded, but i just wanted to get my
feelings out there as an alternative point of view. I am also a rc
photography fan and I love watching and photographing diff action on
buggies. So i am always noticing how much different buggies including
mine are diffing by watching and photographing their tires at different
times.

What i said above is not the be all end all gospel but just my
experience.

Oh yeah, the front diff thing is also a reason you find some buggies
(at least mine) will have more front steering with a front swaybar on
some of the faster corners. The bar keeps the car from transferring
too much weight to the outside tire, thus reducing the front diff
action.
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:25 PM   #13
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great explanation, thanks for taking the time speedbump
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:22 PM   #14
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Thanks LP10 but I didn't write it I found that info a long time ago and saved it to pass on as you are right it is a great explanation.
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Old 03-01-2006, 05:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Boyle
Thanks Crash,

Do you have part # for the upgrade kit and do know how much the kit would run??

Thanks
Kevin Boyle
Part Number: KYO36541
Price: $129 on e-bay, Debbies RC World.

Later,
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