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A CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing)

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A CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing)

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Old 01-22-2019, 09:13 AM
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I purchased 10 acres in Prineville Oregon to build a home.. then the local track got shut down by the city because of permit problems.. so I Built a track ...3 grand in water pipe. rental for trencher 400. 5 grand in tower. 1 grand in scoring pro 10 my laps transponders 1000 for people to use cause they couldn't afford to buy one for a hundred bucks a computer 400. sound system cables and my lap stuff that cost 4 grand. toilets cleaning and pumping service... stuff aint free and cheep 6 yrs it was all good lots of guys showing up. then the city got involved and built a track in town... NOW get it ....my track is 8 miles out of town. I purchased swag to give to racers that showed up. they got a ticket with each entry and at race end I picked a ticket gave out tee shirts, hats, parts . batteries,,,did a series the winner got a unit of his or her choice. I paid for it all out of entry fees. then like a switch after a few yrs people stopped coming. tracks still there. now I have 8 buggies short course trucks.. I race when I can . by my self,lol still love the sport. hope it comes back. NOW heres the problem. PEOPLES attitude .. local hobby shop owner. 56 miles away wouldn't order fuel for the nitro guys got pissed off at me cause I was associated with the racers and would not even tell people about my track. HE went broke...so someone else purchased the hobby store relocated it and they still wont tell any one about the track. all they say is the state parks are going to build a track one of these days.. GO figure... CCRC Closed and will reopen for play. I charged nothing to practice. Just asked people to call before they came in case of rain or snow... I am 68 yrs young I just had heart surgery and three tumors taken out of my head ...I asked for help to do tube and no one showed up SO I did it my self. Then guys would show up leave trash piss all over the place. I put up with it cause I love rcing. I did nothing wrong as far as I can tell. when the track opened I asked for help from one of the track owners that was 200 miles south of me and he said your on your own figure it out ...NICE SAY what..??????? it took me a few races to get my shit together with the computer. NOW I know Attitudes man if I had the money I would build an in door track BUT I dont have a milloin bucks to spend . Thanks Keep racing if you can and support it where you can.
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Old 01-22-2019, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
The club in my area used to have the stock class split up between "Sportsman" and "Expert", what happened was that we had 3-4 heats of Sportsman and would have a hard time filling a single heat of Expert. They would eventually combine both classes and do traditional bump ups.

I personally do not like the bump up structure... I feel awards should be given to each group based on qualifying position with no bumps...
A Main = Pro
B Main = Expert
C Main = Sportsman
D Main and lower, no awards *** Maybe allow bumps up to C Main but no higher than that to prevent sandbagging

If only enough entries to fill 2 heats then top level is called Expert, if enough to fill just 1 heat, then just class name with no skill designation for the award which is typically a podium pic for regular club racing.

This expands the award opportunity, and depending on turnout/qualifying will determine who wins which can fluctuate each week.... I feel bad for many C main drivers who are very good but never stand a chance at getting a podium pic due to the talent in our area.

In contrast, the track in my area just started a "Consistently Consistent Series" where points are earned based on driver consistency, best 5 of 7 mains, doesn't matter if you're in the A or D main, every driver has a chance to win based on consistency, not finish position. This makes things very interesting because it promotes cleaner racing and gives slower drivers a fighting chance for an award

Another thing the club started doing is podium pics for top 3 with only 1 heat, but top 5 with at least 2 or more heats... this helps some but doesn't really give any sportsman level drivers a chance at getting podium pics.

See, this is where I don't agree. It seems to be a North American thing to sub-divide all forms of competition to the point where everyone gets a trophy. I'd far rather have more people in my class to race against, so that the heats get mixed up during the day & from week to week. I know I might not ever even make the A main, but I can have a lot more fun racing with guys similar in skill to myself in the B-main as we push each other to get better.

Plus, with fewer classes, more heats are full & there's less waiting around, & fewer trophies or awards for the track to cover the costs of.

Seems that the successful tracks aren't just focusing on hardcore racers, but also have rental fleets available for kids birthdays etc. I wonder what other revenue streams one can think of outside of racing?

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Old 01-22-2019, 10:41 AM
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Chucko, I feel for you. You tried to be nice and hoped that racers would return the kindness, they had other ideas. I don't want to appear that I am jumping on you, or blaming you for anything, but here are a few thoughts that might help you in the future.

Several very important lessons in business that I learned the hard way years ago:
1) most people value a product or service based on what they pay for it (they don't value what they get for free,)
2) most people agree to help when there is something in it for them,
3) most people don't take care of other people's things (facility, rc car, etc,)
4) most people don't care about your life's circumstances,
5) most people don't show any loyalty.
There are exceptions, but they are rare.

I would look at all of this as a relatively cheap lesson. When the new track folds and the racers come back to your track, treat it more like a business and less like a charity. It will be better for everyone involved.
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Old 01-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
Chucko, I feel for you. You tried to be nice and hoped that racers would return the kindness, they had other ideas. I don't want to appear that I am jumping on you, or blaming you for anything, but here are a few thoughts that might help you in the future.

Several very important lessons in business that I learned the hard way years ago:
1) most people value a product or service based on what they pay for it (they don't value what they get for free,)
2) most people agree to help when there is something in it for them,
3) most people don't take care of other people's things (facility, rc car, etc,)
4) most people don't care about your life's circumstances,
5) most people don't show any loyalty.
There are exceptions, but they are rare.

I would look at all of this as a relatively cheap lesson. When the new track folds and the racers come back to your track, treat it more like a business and less like a charity. It will be better for everyone involved.
68 and still learning WELL SAID my problem is I like people.. I take it like it is. your right treat it like a business but THIS to me is not a business. its fun I charged only to repay for the goodies I purchased. still in the red lol
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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Chucko, it doesn't have to be a business that makes money, you just don't want to lose money. The reason for treating it like a business is so that you don't get taken advantage of. Your time, effort, and use of your land all have a value, you just aren't adding that value into your costs. To me, it seems like you are more disappointed and upset at how the racers treated you and your effort than anything else. I think you would be surprised at how much better you are treated when the racers pay you fully for your efforts.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:19 AM
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There are tons of different opinions and ideas and how to make racing more appealing to keep people coming out. Unfortunately, it's the racers themselves that make it difficult and expensive as there are always those that feel the need to spend money on ceramic bearings, cut gears, bump charge batteries, etc in an attempt to gain an edge. This is discouraging for new people or those that aren't as serious about it. It might be better to organize classes based around lap times than vehicle type. Have a couple of qualifying sessions but don't release the times. Group similar lap times into the main or mains.

Last edited by fredswain; 01-22-2019 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by big ted View Post
See, this is where I don't agree. It seems to be a North American thing to sub-divide all forms of competition to the point where everyone gets a trophy. I'd far rather have more people in my class to race against, so that the heats get mixed up during the day & from week to week. I know I might not ever even make the A main, but I can have a lot more fun racing with guys similar in skill to myself in the B-main as we push each other to get better.

Plus, with fewer classes, more heats are full & there's less waiting around, & fewer trophies or awards for the track to cover the costs of.

Seems that the successful tracks aren't just focusing on hardcore racers, but also have rental fleets available for kids birthdays etc. I wonder what other revenue streams one can think of outside of racing?
I don't think it's clear at what I'm suggesting.... the intent is divide skill by qualifying position... nobody signs up for "sportsman", nobody gets to sandbag... all entries are grouped into a single class and then the top 3 heats are awarded for the top 3 drivers in each heat... that's a total of 9 podium spots that are spread out among skill for each division that is based on turnout... this would make the program most efficient without diluting the program, this is a win/win solution to me.

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Old 01-22-2019, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
I don't think it's clear at what I'm suggesting.... the intent is divide skill by qualifying position... nobody signs up for "sportsman", nobody gets to sandbag... all entries are grouped into a single class and then the top 3 heats are awarded for the top 3 drivers in each heat... that's a total of 9 podium spots that are spread out among skill for each division that is based on turnout... this would make the program most efficient without diluting the program, this is a win/win solution to me.
I question whether it's necessary to have awards. The tracks I race at don't do it and turnout is huge. We just want good racing.

I also agree with keeping classes together. I get why some say they want a separate division (sportsman, 40+, expert, etc.) but I don't think that's what people really want when it comes down to it. I think most would find it more rewarding to win a C-main on a day when there's an E or F main, than to win the A-main when there isn't even a B-main. I do like bump-ups though. I think it makes the lower mains more exciting.
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Old 01-22-2019, 01:23 PM
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I remember a local racer several years ago who wasn't going to make the qualifiers due to a conflict with a school event that his son had. He knew he might make the last qualifier but most likely only get there in time for the mains. He's a really good driver. He didn't get to qualify and was thrown into the C main. He won it and was bumped to the B main. He won it and was bumped to the A main. He didn't win that but did do very well. He knew good and well he was capable of this and that it would most likely happen. I'm not personally a fan of bump ups but it doesn't really change anything or add any time to the day so I'm indifferent to it in actual practice.

I don't care about awards like trophies for club racing. That was fine as a kid but anymore it's an added expense for the track. Regionals or Nats I can definitely see a desire for them.
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by party_wagon View Post
The simple question is if you had a 35x50 foot area for a track and your family depended on that track for income how would you set it up and what would you use it for?
While Iím sure itís been done somewhere, think Iíve seen videos from Europe on tracks that small, thatís small for 1/10. We run 1/18 in layout about that size. A few tried Euro Truck morning on it And seemed pretty good.

Could it actually make money, I have my doubts
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Old 01-23-2019, 06:28 AM
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North East Ohio,
1/12 scale on-road. carpet,
oval carpet, various classes
off-road carpet., various.

NORCAR Racing ? R/C Racing at The Gate

a rc racing club...
no store.
I do not know the inside workings..

been around for almost 30 years that I know of..
many times moving from one building to another..
just to name a few locations.
Bratenahl Ohio , in a school gym
Maple Hts, Ohio .. strip mall
Maple Hts, Ohio.. basement of food store.
then the long move.
Strongsville Ohio, strip mall.

still going...
they must know something.

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Old 01-24-2019, 08:46 AM
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In my opinion a track is going to have a hard time paying expenses with just club racing and a hobby shop. Building leases and insurance are always going to increase in price. Big Ted mentioned earlier that a rental fleet can help. My idea would cost a lot more to start up but may be maintainable. A track or a few tracks set up like an amusement park. People can pay per race or an all day pass. All cars are provided and stay at their designated track. It's possible to have software track and record each persons lap times which could allow the opportunity to have drivers license grades. An "A" license can drive all the slower cars where a "B" license can drive some of the faster cars and so on. Birthday parties (especially for the 11 to 15 year olds) and other events can help pay the expenses and expert races can be held at times when birthday parties aren't booked.

Traxxas should open places like this.

Another idea is having a cheaper way to track lap times on a home built track. I've seen a couple of options but nothing seems to be able to track more than one car at a time. I don't know why there isn't a way to track the signal from your transmitter to the receiver. The signal is unique to each car so we should be able to read it and track it.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:44 AM
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NorCal Hobbies already does R/C rentals. They have a fleet of off road trucks for kids to use. The only issue is that there out there when the serious drivers are out there and they tend to crash into them.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:46 AM
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Tracks need to cater to such a wide range of people. Kids intermediate and racers and the pro guys too. No one section is big enough to support a track alone. Not enough overlap to be able to please all involved. It would be smart for manufacturers to provide some support to tracks. This way the tracks could stay open and the manufacturers could sell more kits and parts. A few tracks off-road and inroad mixed indoors could work. Rc is a small hobby and companies are going to have to group together to survive. If not itís going to be a struggle. Canít believe scvrx is closing. Maybe a monthly fee instead of the per day rate is the way to go? I practice jiujitsu and every school has a monthly fee to keep the doors open. This might be the way to go.
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
I don't care about awards like trophies for club racing. That was fine as a kid but anymore it's an added expense for the track. Regionals or Nats I can definitely see a desire for them.
Just to be clear, the "awards" that I am referring to (at least in club racing) are simply "podium pics", there is zero cost to post pics on the clubs facebook page and it promotes the program, I don't see any reason why a club wouldn't want to generate free promotion.... shrug

Originally Posted by Backyard RC View Post
Another idea is having a cheaper way to track lap times on a home built track. I've seen a couple of options but nothing seems to be able to track more than one car at a time. I don't know why there isn't a way to track the signal from your transmitter to the receiver. The signal is unique to each car so we should be able to read it and track it.
Every $300+ brand of radio system that I have owned over the past 5+ years includes a lap counter, you simply press a button with your thumb (adjacent to the trigger) and it counts a lap, while not necessarily the best in accuracy, it should help you get a good average lap time to see how you're doing. The local track in my area doesn't always turn on the timing system when they are hosting open practice and I will use this feature in a pinch.

I also own a Trackmate timing system which works extremely well, I used to host outlaw race events at a local school yard a few years back when I was still racing on-road. There was a summer where it practically rained every single weekend which canceled racing week after week... but there were pockets of days in the middle of the week that it wasn't raining so we'd get a group of 5-10 guys together and set up our own makeshift track using garden hose and never had any issue because the school was closed for summer, ha! It's based on IR which means that the transponders need to be mounted under clear windshields to work properly and this is a reason why it's not as popular as RF based systems like AMB.

Originally Posted by Bassbuster View Post
NorCal Hobbies already does R/C rentals. They have a fleet of off road trucks for kids to use. The only issue is that there out there when the serious drivers are out there and they tend to crash into them.
I have rented cars at 2 tracks and both were disappointing experiences.

Track #1 was OCRC in SoCal and the buggy they rented was a B4 which was a RM with dated geometry and a crappy RTR radio with no expo nor steering speed adjustment... not saying they need to include a high end system, but a cheap FlySky radio would've been phenomenally better!

Track #2 was Full Throttle Hobbies in New Mexico, it was a carpet track which rented SC10's, again a RM design which was dated, but they didn't include carpet tires which made the truck impossible to drive!

All I'm saying is that if you're gonna rent out vehicles, then at least give folks a fighting chance, there's no way I'd ever be a repeat customer when traveling to respective areas on future family vacations unless I brought my own gear.
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