Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
A CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing) >

A CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing)

Like Tree210Likes

A CRY FOR HELP (RC tracks Closing)

Reply

Old 04-27-2019, 09:23 AM
  #316  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
 
Panther6834's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 268
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Push View Post
That's one of the great things about ROAR, though, is that they have solid insurance for racers. Requiring racers to be ROAR members ensures that the insurance and liability contingency is covered, to a considerable extent.
Unfortunately, ROAR has other problems...SERIOUS problems. I paid my membership back in mid-March. On the same day, I emailed them with a few membership-related questions...and they NEVER responded. By mid-April, not only had I not received any reply from my email, but I hadn't received anything (membership card, etc) from them via postal mail, so I emailed them again...and, again, I've NEVER heard back from them. Finally, about a week ago, I emailed them a third time, explaining that I had emailed them earlier in the month, asking where my membership info was, and I copied the second email into the first...and, yet again, I NEVER heard back. I contacted PayPal, initiating an "inquiry", to which they, in-turn, sent a message to ROAR. Now, here's where things got "interesting" - the very moment ROAR was contacted by PayPal, ROAR's system sent out an automated email to me, (falsely?) claiming there has been "an error in the payment processing by PayPal". In other words, ROAR is attempting to blame PayPal for screwing things up...but, at the same time, there was NO other information in said email. Now, I know there was no "error", as my bank account, as well as my PayPal account, both clearly indicate the payment having gone to ROAR. Additionally, I have verbal confirmation, from PayPal, regarding this. As of now, this initial "inquiry" has been escalated to a "dispute"...and, since additional information obtained by PayPal has raised other "interesting" questions about ROAR transactions through payPal, said "dispute" has now been escalated (by PayPal, not by me) to a "claim". Furthermore, due to additional information obtained by PayPal, they are considering the possibility of disallowing further ROAR transactions through the PayPal system. Now, I'm not saying there has been anything "illegal" regarding ROAR transactions through PayPal (that is up to PayPal to determine), but I can confirm that there have been some "questionable" ROAR transactions going through the PayPal system. Make of that whatever you will.
Panther6834 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 05:14 PM
  #317  
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 45
Default

Originally Posted by Panther6834 View Post
Unfortunately, ROAR has other problems...SERIOUS problems. I paid my membership back in mid-March. On the same day, I emailed them with a few membership-related questions...and they NEVER responded.
Wow, that's disheartening to hear. I have a buddy down in Texas who I just got into RC. He's got some killer tracks around his place in Austin. He just signed up for a ROAR membership a few days ago, so I'll let you know if and when he gets his card and membership info. I'll find out how he paid because I'm not sure whether or not he used Paypal. When I signed up for ROAR membership through my local track I received my card in a few weeks, but that was in like 1992 lol. Sad to hear that. Hopefully it's just an epic mix-up and nothing more.
Push is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2019, 10:21 PM
  #318  
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
 
Panther6834's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 268
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Push View Post
Wow, that's disheartening to hear. I have a buddy down in Texas who I just got into RC. He just signed up for a ROAR membership a few days ago, so I'll let you know if and when he gets his card and membership info. I'll find out how he paid because I'm not sure whether or not he used Paypal. Sad to hear that. Hopefully it's just an epic mix-up and nothing more.
I certainly hope so, as well. If your buddy signed up at an event, he might not run into the same problem. If he signed up online, as I did, I believe all payments go through PayPal...but, again, I'm fairly certain the "error" was not on the side of PayPal. I will also update, whatever comes of this matter.
Panther6834 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2019, 12:53 AM
  #319  
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: folsom, ca
Posts: 37
Default

I try to support my local track but the truth is they don't have majority of the stuff I need or want in stock. I pay my practice and race dues with no problem and other items like tires but they are a very small place in a niche market/area. Luckily, they've been going for about 15 years and seem to make it by, the owners are very nice and accommodating for me in a wheelchair. The owner just came up to me last week and asked if I had any suggestions for making the drivers stand better or to help me drive. I will always give them any business I can, they are family owned/operated and truly care about local drivers.

The only issue I have is every time I go in the shop to ask for certain parts, they never have them in stock. They have to order them and wait a week. It's so much easier to order from a-main and get all my stuff in a couple days (especially since my local track is 45 minutes away).

If anyone were to ask me about how to keep their business open, it would be to...

1) Have all the regular parts available for the cars of classes you mostly run. (They don't have).
2) Have a nice, well maintained track to practice/race on. ( they have).
3) Offer cool race series with trophies and accommodations ( 1 or 2 throw out rounds, which they have).
4) Be regulated to IFMAR rules to ensure fair competition (they don't really have).

There are so many drivers who charge at insane amps and run outlaw motors in the stock class that makes it such a bummer. I show up with the skills of pro/expert but without the means to have the same gear as the top guys it really sucks. I keep telling myself "just stay smooth and consistent" but it's hard when these other guys are running soo much faster setups in the stock class. They pull me on the straights and can clear the big jumps from the inside with almost no run-up. I will still race of course, but it just really sucks knowing you're going into it with a disadvantage just because the local track doesn't enforce the rules of a big race. It won't make me stop going there, but it can be detrimental to other people.

The other major issue I ran into today is them relying so much on volunteers. They totally soaked the track today and I had to wait about an hour after to drive afterwards. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate them doing track maintenance. But it does suck to be sitting there for over an hour before going back on the track. I know without them the track would go to hell, but from the perspective of a new driver this would all really suck.

I guess my point is that no local track is perfect and has no flaws, but I'd much rather have this than nothing at all. If you truly love driving/racing R/C, you will put up with any flaws. I personally had no problem waiting so long for the track to dry back up, but I can easily see newcomers getting frustrated and leaving. As a pro/exert driver, I'll drive on anything, but for new people it might really suck.

If they only care about the top drivers, then no problem....it all works out perfectly. But if you're trying to appeal to the masses, you have to stop thinking about what the top local racers would want only. Make it more simple and easy for everyone to drive and just let us pro/expert guys adapt.
Scrubb and BugleBoy10 like this.
CMadsen_24 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2019, 05:31 AM
  #320  
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,589
Default

Stock racing is the suck right now, with motor cheating. Most tracks, all you have to do is sharpie 17.5 on any motor and you're in. 4x4 mod buggy is where all the fun is at now.

Charging is fair game outdoors. No limits.

I won't do any biz with Roar if they only take paypal. My credit cards work fine for everyone else.
Zerodefect is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 04:22 AM
  #321  
Tech Fanatic
 
Scrubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 877
Default

CMadsen...

Thanks for being a great racer/customer! we need more racers like you!


What brand of products do you run that they don't carry what you use?


I think the stock classes are way too fast. The class should be called Amateur, so the fast guys stay out of it. Motors should be 17.5 fixed timing/blinky. Novice class should be Tamiya or Traxxas brushed motors. Modified classes should be called Expert.


Honestly, If I were to own another shop/track, I would keep the bare minimum of parts for racers (minimum of AE and Losi, a few tires for track), and I would carry the entire Traxxas line for the walk in customers. This is based from what I learned form experience being in the hobby 35+ years and owning a shop/track.
ncpantherfan and Push like this.

Last edited by Scrubb; 04-29-2019 at 05:57 AM.
Scrubb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 12:40 PM
  #322  
Tech Adept
 
Teamrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 165
Default

1) Offer a shorter day, people are busy and have many thing competing for time. Given we have to drive in many cases 2 hr. or more round trip to track, 8 hrs. of racing is just too much for all but the hardcore. Run "hardcore" days for them. Rest of us, get us in and out in 3 hrs. The order is sorted pretty much by the end of Q1. How about a track that is open for 20 minutes per class, 5 best laps you turn are where you qualify? Say 3 classes, that's one hour, everyone has their spot. Just an idea, but think outside the norm here. Times have changed a lot yet basic racing format has not.
2) Charge more, where else can you use someone's facility for $20 for all day. But you have to view this as competing for entertainment dollars and what you can you do to entertain, how's your vending, how's the overall environment for a family to hang out. Are you welcoming to new people etc. etc. How about a franchise restaurant on site that you split costs with for rent?
3) I'd be out of the parts business, you will never compete, there is no money in it. Make your money with a higher entrance fee, coffee, vending, games, etc. I'd only sell the Traxxas stuff and make sure I have a class for them to run that is friendly to newcomers.
3) Motors do not work any more as a divider, if they ever did, needs to be skill based. The computer could sort this out, but simply slow down "stock" class. 1st, stop calling it stock class whatever that means. Offer a true novice spec class and keep your local hot shoes out of it (We all know who they are). No one enjoys getting lapped 10 times while the RD yells at you to move over.
4) Some guy is using your building all day, you can't survive on $15. Oh wait, that was #2. Or find something else to sell, how about a "workshop" for newcomers. $75 for 3 hours where you help a kid build his car, next weekend after they race it. Parents love this stuff.

Just some random ideas, a very tough business that requires a remake to survive with so much competition from other things these days. In the end the same 30 hardcore showing up who pay $20 will not keep you in business.
Teamrule is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 12:56 PM
  #323  
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,589
Default

Agree completely. Back in the day there were 3 classes and almost zero charging.

Rc can't survive on it's current format.

We need a ''Quicky format''. Maybe every other week or so, not every week. Just 4 classes. 1 round of Q's only. Amains only. Q in the B? Your day's over. You have to make the show.



.

Last edited by Zerodefect; 04-29-2019 at 01:12 PM.
Zerodefect is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 02:22 PM
  #324  
Tech Adept
 
Teamrule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 165
Default

Agreed, and for the hardcore that think every club race needs to be 3 qualifiers and main all day event have a day for those people but I would advise the rate goes up. No one can be expected to provide an entertainment venue for the whole day for $20 and pay employees, insurance, overhead and a real wage. If people don't want to pay more or simply can't it all points back to a model that does not work then.

A shorter format would allow potenitally two 3 hour slots a day. Most people can't commit to all day but could more often find a 9-12AM or 1-4PM for instance. Two potential crowds in one day.

And yes, too many classes and frankly too fast for 90% of people. You need an expert class for the superstars and something else for the rest of us. Also the way modern tracks and cars are there is simply not a lot of fiddling, practically set it and forget it. no need for 30 minutes or more between rounds.

There are a lot of good thoughts in these 22 pages and all of them point to evaluating the status quo which is always met with someone angst but for racing to survive it's necessary.
Teamrule is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 07:06 PM
  #325  
Tech Elite
 
Zerodefect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,589
Default

Hopefully people wanting shorter days like the 1-4 slot.

Because many clubs have open practice 9-12. At a quiet track, practice can be a thousand laps more than the race day.
Zerodefect is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 07:12 PM
  #326  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: S. Illinois
Posts: 107
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

You make a lot of great points! Only issue I see in that is the need for turn marshals. If you only have a couple classes the marshaling suffers when some of those drivers break and need to do repairs when they need to be marshaling. Having more classes ensures a proper # of marshals are on the track for every race. So the super quick have their own time of day to race. Who marshals for those guys when the "medium" quick drivers makeup the majority of who shows up each weekend?
guitars911 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2019, 09:04 PM
  #327  
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: folsom, ca
Posts: 37
Default

Originally Posted by Scrubb View Post
CMadsen...

Thanks for being a great racer/customer! we need more racers like you!


What brand of products do you run that they don't carry what you use?


I think the stock classes are way too fast. The class should be called Amateur, so the fast guys stay out of it. Motors should be 17.5 fixed timing/blinky. Novice class should be Tamiya or Traxxas brushed motors. Modified classes should be called Expert.


Honestly, If I were to own another shop/track, I would keep the bare minimum of parts for racers (minimum of AE and Losi, a few tires for track), and I would carry the entire Traxxas line for the walk in customers. This is based from what I learned form experience being in the hobby 35+ years and owning a shop/track.
Well the best example is this past Saturday I was practicing and felt like I needed stiffer springs. I drive a Losi 22 5.0 (which I bought from the local shop) but they had absolutely no other spring options in stock. I pulled up A-Main on my phone and had the option of getting them for the same price delivered to my house within 3 business days. I also run a Reedy 17.5 turn S+ motor and wanted aluminum or titanium screws but they didn't have any. This is more of a special item but it's the most commonly used motor at the track, I figured they would have every part possible for it. Same thing with replacement arms...none in stock. Personally, I believe they should have every part available for the most common cars like the Losi 22 models or Associated. Especially since it's an indoor 1/10 offroad track only.

I don't really have a big problem with guys in the stock class running outlaw motors or charging at super high amps, personally I see it as a challenge to try and beat them. It doesn't help that most of them have sponsorships (like almost everyone else does) and can replace their motors, tires, batteries, etc. without blinking an eye while I don't but again...I run the expert class for a challenge. Yes, it would be nice for rules to be more heavily enforced at the local level to keep things fair, but it may be more profitable to keep the top guys happy who keep coming back and spend 2-3 days a week at the track. The big picture though is that this encourages sandbagging so people have a better chance to win and can turn off a lot of newcomers who may feel like they'll never have a chance to win.
CMadsen_24 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 02:30 AM
  #328  
Tech Fanatic
 
Scrubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 877
Default

Originally Posted by CMadsen_24 View Post
Well the best example is this past Saturday I was practicing and felt like I needed stiffer springs. I drive a Losi 22 5.0 (which I bought from the local shop) but they had absolutely no other spring options in stock. I pulled up A-Main on my phone and had the option of getting them for the same price delivered to my house within 3 business days. I also run a Reedy 17.5 turn S+ motor and wanted aluminum or titanium screws but they didn't have any. This is more of a special item but it's the most commonly used motor at the track, I figured they would have every part possible for it. Same thing with replacement arms...none in stock. Personally, I believe they should have every part available for the most common cars like the Losi 22 models or Associated. Especially since it's an indoor 1/10 offroad track only.
They should have a basic minimum of spares for Losi and AE cars for sure. The optional motors screws... most shops wouldn't even think about ordering them, heck the onwer ordering parts probably didn't even know they exist. Not surprised on that.
Scrubb is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 05:16 AM
  #329  
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
 
Chaz955i's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 1,089
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Teamrule View Post
Agreed, and for the hardcore that think every club race needs to be 3 qualifiers and main all day event have a day for those people but I would advise the rate goes up. No one can be expected to provide an entertainment venue for the whole day for $20 and pay employees, insurance, overhead and a real wage. If people don't want to pay more or simply can't it all points back to a model that does not work then.


A shorter format would allow potenitally two 3 hour slots a day. Most people can't commit to all day but could more often find a 9-12AM or 1-4PM for instance. Two potential crowds in one day.


And yes, too many classes and frankly too fast for 90% of people. You need an expert class for the superstars and something else for the rest of us. Also the way modern tracks and cars are there is simply not a lot of fiddling, practically set it and forget it. no need for 30 minutes or more between rounds.


There are a lot of good thoughts in these 22 pages and all of them point to evaluating the status quo which is always met with someone angst but for racing to survive it's necessary.

You bring up some good points. While I understand that tracks need money to survive I tend to see them falling in the trap of trying to offer every class for every skill level instead of offering a class for every skill level. It dilutes the classes and makes the day way too long.


1. Have a minimum car count to run a class and stick to it. Be clear on social media about what classes are run and what the rules are.


2. Have a novice class where any car, within reason, can be run.


3. Don't mix unlike cars in classes just to bump up the car count or shorten the day. If this has to be done the program is already flawed.


4. Be clear on the expectation of marshalling after the race. (At one track I raced recently the Race Director very bluntly said if he has to go looking for a person to marshal after a race that person can pack their stuff, pick up their entry fee and leave. I thought it a little rough but we had no issues throughout the day.)


5. Be willing to have a talk or pull a person from a class if they do not have the skill to drive the car or drive recklessly. This isn't about new/experienced drivers as much as the person who just goes out on the track and doesn't car how much havoc they create or makes no attempts at clean passes. I continuously hear the argument that these are toy cars (they are) and that people take it too seriously (we do). What this doesn't account for is the amount of time maintaining the cars, travelling, etc. so ruining a person's race after they burned a day to go to the track doesn't fly, ever.


Some of those are tough conversations but the risk of pissing off multiple people because a RD doesn't want to have a conversation with one person isn't a great way to achieve long term success.


Just my opinion

Last edited by Chaz955i; 04-30-2019 at 05:17 AM. Reason: clarity
Chaz955i is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 09:40 AM
  #330  
Tech Fanatic
 
Scrubb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 877
Default

Most tracks (already hurting for income) will take racing fee's from any racer that wants to race. That's why you see small count, unpopular classes being raced at the expense of a smooth, short race program. No matter what everyone's great ideas are, they don't make enough money for commercial rent space, and the money can't be made up in an competitive, already low profit margin hobby shop selling parts. Racers won't come back with higher race and practice fee's. They just don't think it worth their money. It is what it is. Commercial rent will go higher, it literally always has. It's really not that big of a deal really. Racing in other areas of the world are mostly club owned, and racing in the US started out as mostly club owned. That's just the direction the hobby is heading. Sure their will always be a few commercial tracks that figured out a great deal on a piece of property (The landlord for my old track is an awesome guy for instance). Nobody should worry about it anyway, club track racing is fun, and relaxing actually.
Scrubb is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service