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Team Associated B6.1 & B6.1D thread

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Team Associated B6.1 & B6.1D thread

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Old 08-30-2018, 06:59 AM   -   Wikipost
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Welcome to the B6.1 and B6.1D Wiki page.





Features:

Easy-access gear differential
Differential height adjustment with 0, 1, 2, and 3mm inserts included
New slipper assembly for better weight balance and shock clearance
3-gear Laydown Stealth(r) transmission for lower and forward CG
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite front shock tower with tower guard
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite rear tower, standard height
Heavy-duty V2 rear axle with 67mm bones
V2 springs for a more reactive and nimble feel
Innovative rear arm with molded inserts for ultra-fine lower shock mount adjustment
Molded spur gear guard to help protect body from damage
Front and rear anti-roll bars limit chassis roll for increased corner speed
Battery strap allows the use of optional turnbuckle-based braces
Machined pistons included for better fit and smoother operation
Aluminum rear clamping hex and front axle with laser etching
Rear hubs feature large bearings and the easy-insert system to adjust camber link position and rear axle height
One-piece shock bushing to make assembly easier
Aluminum C and D arm mounts included for large range of anti-squat and toe adjustment
Lightweight aluminum top shaft
Factory Team upgraded ball bearing kit included (now oiled instead of greased for less drag)
JConcepts(r) B6 clear body and wing included
Steel chassis weight
Shortened, 7075 aluminum chassis






Features:

Easy-access ball differential
Differential height adjustment with 0, 1, 2, and 3mm inserts included
New slipper assembly for better weight balance and shock clearance
3-gear Lay Back Stealth(r) transmission for lower and rearward CG
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite front shock tower with tower guard
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite rear tower, long
Heavy-duty V2 rear axle with 67mm bones
V2 springs for a more reactive and nimble feel
Innovative rear arm with molded inserts for ultra-fine lower shock mount adjustment
Molded spur gear guard to help protect body from damage
+1 steering block arms optimize feel on dirt tracks
Battery strap allows the use of optional turnbuckle-based braces
Machined pistons included for better fit and smoother operation
Aluminum rear clamping hex and front axle with laser etching
Rear hubs feature large bearings and the easy-insert system to adjust camber link position and rear axle height
One-piece shock bushing to make assembly easier
Aluminum C and D arm mounts included for large range of anti-squat and toe adjustment
Lightweight aluminum top shaft
Factory Team upgraded ball bearing kit included (now oiled instead of greased for less drag)
JConcepts(r) B6 clear body and wing included
Shortened, 7075 aluminum chassis


Setup Sheets and other documentation
Setup sheets for both cars:
Piston Drills:
Aftermarket Upgrades:

Parts List:

Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday):

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Old 02-13-2018, 06:29 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by urnotevenwrg2 View Post
The wire diameter, spring diameter, spring length, and coil spacing will dictate the characteristics of the spring. Because of this, it is possible for two springs to have the same (or very close to the same) theoretical rate, yet feel different on track. I wonder if the V2 springs are just because AE had to change vendors for their springs?
All the above plus wire material and coating, heat treatment etc. I've bought all Yokomo big bore springs since the B-Max series so far, and time and again I am surprised how they continue to make improvements.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by urnotevenwrg2 View Post
The wire diameter, spring diameter, spring length, and coil spacing will dictate the characteristics of the spring.

Because of this, it is possible for two springs to have the same (or very close to the same) theoretical rate, yet feel different on track.

I am missing the causality underlined by the bold fond

Let me try again

You can get build springs with different wire diam, spring diam, length, coil spacing and pick all these variables to get the same stiffness (K) rate, to the comma, for both.

Then - How are they feeling different on the track? What are the physics behind that difference, and what makes them behave differently beyond the simple F=KX?

I have yet to find a proper explanation on this forum. Who will rise to the challenge?

Thanks,
Paul
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MX304 View Post
I'm guessing they are something along the lines of Yatabe springs, or Yokomo's RP springs.
Nice to see. I currently run the Yatabe springs on my B6 for turf and I like them over the stock springs. Good to see TA picked up on the trend to produce their own versions.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
I am missing the causality underlined by the bold fond

Let me try again

You can get build springs with different wire diam, spring diam, length, coil spacing and pick all these variables to get the same stiffness (K) rate, to the comma, for both.

Then - How are they feeling different on the track? What are the physics behind that difference, and what makes them behave differently beyond the simple F=KX?

I have yet to find a proper explanation on this forum. Who will rise to the challenge?

Thanks,
Paul
Even though two different combinations of variables are going to get you to the same final rate. the way they each get there through their travel is going to be different,
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by FasterLouder View Post
Looks like a bad imitation of a 22 4.0.
I've built and owned lots of AE cars and have just finished building a 22 4.0.
Blown away.
AE could at least design a car that has some origional thinking and engineering involved, like Schumacher or Hot Bodies, but then, if you're going to copy something, you might as well copy the best.
The quick access to the diff is cool, but open the diff and it looks like something out of a Tamiya Astute.
TLR's planetary gear diff is beyond comparison to the AE part.
The 4.0 ball diff is the best ball diff I've ever built and I've built lots.
Don't waste your money, just go buy a 22 4.0.
I JUST finished my first TLR build, a 22 4.0SR, recently. Matter of fact, I went through the car yesterday to change the setup from stock SR to the 4.0 turf setup. I have to admit, changing the setup seemed more cumbersome and a P.I.T.A compared to my B6. That could be because I'm more familiar with my B6 as it is my third TA vehicle and I've done several tear downs/build ups on it before. Just felt like certain aspects of the B6 car felt faster to change than on my 22 4.0SR. I'm reserving my final judgement until I drive/race the TLR for the first time this coming weekend but my previous statements are just my opinions of what I've noticed so far between working on the two different cars.

BUT...I am planning on putting my B6 up for sale and buying a B6.1 to go with my 22 4.0SR.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
I am missing the causality underlined by the bold fond

Let me try again

You can get build springs with different wire diam, spring diam, length, coil spacing and pick all these variables to get the same stiffness (K) rate, to the comma, for both.

Then - How are they feeling different on the track? What are the physics behind that difference, and what makes them behave differently beyond the simple F=KX?

I have yet to find a proper explanation on this forum. Who will rise to the challenge?

Thanks,
Paul
Here are some differences:

The spring rate (K) is only they linear force if the spring is in a steady state. It doesn't tell you many other factors that determine how the spring reacts in motion. The K value doesn't tell you anything about the mass of the spring, the hysteresis of the material, how well the spring holds its shape under compression, or how many cycles the spring can go through before it starts degrading.

Example A.
Have you seen springs advertised as low frequency? Using thicker wire and increasing the number of coils keeps the K value of the spring the same, but now the spring itself has more mass. This affects how the spring reacts to changes in direction/momentum. It might also make for a spring that doesn't bow out as much as you compress it. There is an ideal number of coils to thickness to diameter that minimizes this affect. The less the spring bows (they all do, it's a matter of how much) the less torque is placed on the shock internals.

Example B.
Many companies have switched from powder coating springs from 10 years ago to oxidizing them. This reduced the hysteresis from the powder coating, making for more consistent springs. Not saying I know the exact coating that is used on the new springs, but maybe they changed the thickness of the coating or something else to try and make the springs more consistent from batch to batch.

Source: Was an engineer at a spring/sway bar/torsion bar manufacturer a while back.
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Old 02-13-2018, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
I am missing the causality underlined by the bold fond

Let me try again

You can get build springs with different wire diam, spring diam, length, coil spacing and pick all these variables to get the same stiffness (K) rate, to the comma, for both.

Then - How are they feeling different on the track? What are the physics behind that difference, and what makes them behave differently beyond the simple F=KX?

I have yet to find a proper explanation on this forum. Who will rise to the challenge?

Thanks,
Paul
Federkennlinie is what you are looking for.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:04 PM
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There's not a bad ball diff out there anymore. There are lots of people that don't know how to build or adjust them though.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:50 PM
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or how many cycles the spring can go through before it starts degrading.
I assume you mean before the load rating starts to degrade?

Assuming the spring was manufactured correctly the spring rate will remain the
same.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
There's not a bad ball diff out there anymore. There are lots of people that don't know how to build or adjust them though.
TLR had an issue with the male outdrives in some of the 4.0 kits. The bearing wouldn't seat far enough, and it makes it so the diff doesn't work correctly. But yeah, lots of people don't understand how to build and adjust ball diffs.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by urnotevenwrg2 View Post
TLR had an issue with the male outdrives in some of the 4.0 kits. The bearing wouldn't seat far enough, and it makes it so the diff doesn't work correctly. But yeah, lots of people don't understand how to build and adjust ball diffs.
Every single gearbox topshaft on the RC10 Worlds Car re-release was defective. It can happen to anyone. Especially with everything being outsourced overseas. It's hardly a knock against the 22 4.0.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:01 AM
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Guys, i was thinking about somthing and would like to know, whats your thought about that?

By looking at the picture of the open gear box on the AE site, when you raise, or lower those diff, you also have to move the idler gear too, so no quick change there as you have to remove and open the gear box, otherwise the opening for the out drives of inserts for the diff must been some kind of a banana shape to mach the gear mash to the idler, or do i miss something!?

I hope you understand what i mean, cause of my bad english i sometimes do not find/know the right words?
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by micholix View Post
Guys, i was thinking about somthing and would like to know, whats your thought about that?

By looking at the picture of the open gear box on the AE site, when you raise, or lower those diff, you also have to move the idler gear too, so no quick change there as you have to remove and open the gear box, otherwise the opening for the out drives of inserts for the diff must been some kind of a banana shape to mach the gear mash to the idler, or do i miss something!?

I hope you understand what i mean, cause of my bad english i sometimes do not find/know the right words?
I was talking about this last night with my brother and yes you cannot just simply move it up it must go up and forward at the same time to maintain the proper gear mesh. I would assume that would be taken care of in the various inserts they give to raise or lower the diff.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Braxamus View Post
I was talking about this last night with my brother and yes you cannot just simply move it up it must go up and forward at the same time to maintain the proper gear mesh. I would assume that would be taken care of in the various inserts they give to raise or lower the diff.
Looks fine to me. Also there is little room if any to move the top shaft and idler gear.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:17 AM
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Hello. I am interested in purchasing the new B6.1d for the outdoor season this summer. The tracks I race on are loose (holeshots and 3ds are common). Would the stock three gear transmission work for tracks like this or would the original b6d four gear work? Thank you.
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