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Team Associated B6.1 & B6.1D thread

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Old 08-30-2018, 06:59 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Team Associated B6.1 & B6.1D thread
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Welcome to the B6.1 and B6.1D Wiki page.





Features:

Easy-access gear differential
Differential height adjustment with 0, 1, 2, and 3mm inserts included
New slipper assembly for better weight balance and shock clearance
3-gear Laydown Stealth(r) transmission for lower and forward CG
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite front shock tower with tower guard
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite rear tower, standard height
Heavy-duty V2 rear axle with 67mm bones
V2 springs for a more reactive and nimble feel
Innovative rear arm with molded inserts for ultra-fine lower shock mount adjustment
Molded spur gear guard to help protect body from damage
Front and rear anti-roll bars limit chassis roll for increased corner speed
Battery strap allows the use of optional turnbuckle-based braces
Machined pistons included for better fit and smoother operation
Aluminum rear clamping hex and front axle with laser etching
Rear hubs feature large bearings and the easy-insert system to adjust camber link position and rear axle height
One-piece shock bushing to make assembly easier
Aluminum C and D arm mounts included for large range of anti-squat and toe adjustment
Lightweight aluminum top shaft
Factory Team upgraded ball bearing kit included (now oiled instead of greased for less drag)
JConcepts(r) B6 clear body and wing included
Steel chassis weight
Shortened, 7075 aluminum chassis






Features:

Easy-access ball differential
Differential height adjustment with 0, 1, 2, and 3mm inserts included
New slipper assembly for better weight balance and shock clearance
3-gear Lay Back Stealth(r) transmission for lower and rearward CG
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite front shock tower with tower guard
Heavy-duty V2 routed graphite rear tower, long
Heavy-duty V2 rear axle with 67mm bones
V2 springs for a more reactive and nimble feel
Innovative rear arm with molded inserts for ultra-fine lower shock mount adjustment
Molded spur gear guard to help protect body from damage
+1 steering block arms optimize feel on dirt tracks
Battery strap allows the use of optional turnbuckle-based braces
Machined pistons included for better fit and smoother operation
Aluminum rear clamping hex and front axle with laser etching
Rear hubs feature large bearings and the easy-insert system to adjust camber link position and rear axle height
One-piece shock bushing to make assembly easier
Aluminum C and D arm mounts included for large range of anti-squat and toe adjustment
Lightweight aluminum top shaft
Factory Team upgraded ball bearing kit included (now oiled instead of greased for less drag)
JConcepts(r) B6 clear body and wing included
Shortened, 7075 aluminum chassis


Setup Sheets and other documentation
Setup sheets for both cars:
Piston Drills:
Aftermarket Upgrades:

Parts List:

Reference Guides (courtesy of Ray Munday):

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Old 06-04-2019, 12:56 AM
  #2866  
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Originally Posted by Pistol123 View Post
Not with an idler gear as the input and output are at the same radius. If the input shaft turns the idler shaft one tooth, the idler gear will turn the diff one tooth. It is just a 1 to 1 ratio so no effect on ratio.
If input and output gears are the same, then yes - but that is an assumption and coincidental - not the definition of what an idler gear is, like some were claiming.



The middle medium size gear is the idler.

The idler, as part of the system of gears, indirectly effects the overall ratio, but also determines the direction of output gear AND the spacing between the shafts. If the size of the idler gear changed but the shaft stays in the same place, the input and output gears have to change accordingly, thus changing the ratio.

Last edited by Horatio; 06-04-2019 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 06-04-2019, 02:05 AM
  #2867  
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Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
If input and output gears are the same, then yes - but that is an assumption and coincidental - not the definition of what an idler gear is, like some were claiming.



The middle medium size gear is the idler.

The idler, as part of the system of gears, indirectly effects the overall ratio, but also determines the direction of output gear AND the spacing between the shafts. If the size of the idler gear changed but the shaft stays in the same place, the input and output gears have to change accordingly, thus changing the ratio.
The ratio only changes because of the changed input and output gears. Gear ratio is about tooth numbers and not shaft positions. The idler does not have any effect on the ratio in any 3 gear transmission, and as long as both idlers are identical in a 4 gear transmission, the same applies here. The number of idlers affects the direction of rotation, nothing else.
There seems to be demand for an idler forum, this is the B6.1 thread, though...
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Old 06-04-2019, 04:45 AM
  #2868  
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Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
If input and output gears are the same, then yes - but that is an assumption and coincidental - not the definition of what an idler gear is, like some were claiming.

The middle medium size gear is the idler.

The idler, as part of the system of gears, indirectly effects the overall ratio, but also determines the direction of output gear AND the spacing between the shafts. If the size of the idler gear changed but the shaft stays in the same place, the input and output gears have to change accordingly, thus changing the ratio.
No. It is a valid assumption and not coincidental. The purpose of an idler gear isn't to change the ratio. An AE engineer didn't go into a meeting like, "Alright, I want to use a 26 tooth idler gear. Let's move the motor to accept this design decision. If you don't like it, feel free to send a strongly worded email that you BCC everyone else on."

The idler gear was altered to accommodate changes made to the input and output gears which is driven by other design criteria. Like with the laydown gearbox, the motor position was decided first for weight bias, the diff height was selected to best match the cvd angles, then an ideal gear ratio was selected (or carried over), the input and output gear tooth count was selected based on clearances, then the idler was designed last to make every other design selection work.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:34 AM
  #2869  
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Originally Posted by Krio View Post
No. It is a valid assumption and not coincidental. The purpose of an idler gear isn't to change the ratio. An AE engineer didn't go into a meeting like, "Alright, I want to use a 26 tooth idler gear. Let's move the motor to accept this design decision. If you don't like it, feel free to send a strongly worded email that you BCC everyone else on."

The idler gear was altered to accommodate changes made to the input and output gears which is driven by other design criteria. Like with the laydown gearbox, the motor position was decided first for weight bias, the diff height was selected to best match the cvd angles, then an ideal gear ratio was selected (or carried over), the input and output gear tooth count was selected based on clearances, then the idler was designed last to make every other design selection work.
Hopefully this will be enough to settle the argument, but i'm sure it won't be.
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Old 06-05-2019, 07:40 AM
  #2870  
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Sorry to star such a war. It became obvious to me after the first reply that no matter how many teeth there are on the idler, the number of teeth it spins on one side is the same as on the other side.

Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
not the definition of what an idler gear is, like some were claiming.
This inspired me to look up the definition. According to Merriam-Webster: a gear placed between a driving and a driven gear to transfer motion without change of direction or gear ratio.

I see that the rest of your post seemed to try to explain that the size of the idler gear either determines, or is determined by, the distance between the two drive gears. That makes perfect sense. The different sizes of idlers needed for the different transmission configurations is because of the different distance. Different tooth count to maintain the same pitch.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:21 AM
  #2871  
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Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 View Post
Sorry to star such a war. It became obvious to me after the first reply that no matter how many teeth there are on the idler, the number of teeth it spins on one side is the same as on the other side.


This inspired me to look up the definition. According to Merriam-Webster: a gear placed between a driving and a driven gear to transfer motion without change of direction or gear ratio.

I see that the rest of your post seemed to try to explain that the size of the idler gear either determines, or is determined by, the distance between the two drive gears. That makes perfect sense. The different sizes of idlers needed for the different transmission configurations is because of the different distance. Different tooth count to maintain the same pitch.
I was the design engineer on several AE platforms from 2002-2011. Put this to bed, the above is correct, end of story.
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Old 06-05-2019, 08:27 AM
  #2872  
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Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
Broke another rear arm today. lol. So weird, didnt break any for the past 2 years. maybe i will be plastic ones and boil them lol.
First, try soaking them in hot (yet non-boiling) water for 12 hours overnight. i.e. Boil water, pull off heat, insert arms. You will probably get some benefit but not experience as much shrink and warp as if you get the material closer to the melting point.

The hard plastic is much more brittle, I only run the std material arms. So far have not broken one. Worst case....B6 arms also fit a 6.1, you just lose the 2 inner shock mount adjustment holes....you'd have to custom drill them.
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Old 06-05-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kdub View Post
First, try soaking them in hot (yet non-boiling) water for 12 hours overnight. i.e. Boil water, pull off heat, insert arms. You will probably get some benefit but not experience as much shrink and warp as if you get the material closer to the melting point.

The hard plastic is much more brittle, I only run the std material arms. So far have not broken one. Worst case....B6 arms also fit a 6.1, you just lose the 2 inner shock mount adjustment holes....you'd have to custom drill them.
The b6 rear arms hit the spur with a layback. Yeah, do the water thing with my spurs to make them quiet. If I put a laydown in, I might try the B6 arms. I dont use the inner hole on the 6.1 arms. I find the b6 inner hole position to be better. The front arms take more of a beating, but those rarely break. just weird on the rear arms
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Old 06-05-2019, 12:56 PM
  #2874  
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Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
The b6 rear arms hit the spur with a layback...
Are you running modified? I am running a 72T (for stock..) with B6 arms and I haven't had any rub.

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Old 06-05-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Horatio View Post

This is the B6.1 thread, not sure why you posted a pic of a Bandit transmission
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:09 PM
  #2876  
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Originally Posted by BugleBoy10 View Post
Sorry to star such a war. It became obvious to me after the first reply that no matter how many teeth there are on the idler, the number of teeth it spins on one side is the same as on the other side.


This inspired me to look up the definition. According to Merriam-Webster: a gear placed between a driving and a driven gear to transfer motion without change of direction or gear ratio.

I see that the rest of your post seemed to try to explain that the size of the idler gear either determines, or is determined by, the distance between the two drive gears. That makes perfect sense. The different sizes of idlers needed for the different transmission configurations is because of the different distance. Different tooth count to maintain the same pitch.
No war, a little banter you might call it, carrying over from another thread, but as always with RCtech - loads of good info and some very entertaining posts!

I apologise however if the subject matter caused the thread to drift a little - I appreciate this is the 6.1 thread not an idler gear thread. My bad.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:30 PM
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My ghetto DIY fan mount that I put on my B6.1d finally broke on Saturday. I ran last qualifier and main without the fan. It was really doing it's job well, motor went from cool to the touch after 10min runs to kinda warm (about 130F on the can) after 5min heat.

I decided to just order the schelle battery brace mount I had designed it after, looks pretty simple to just mount to the battery brace. It should fit on the stock brace right? or is the included screw too short?

Also switching to 21.5T sportsman it looked fun. Many of them were running faster lap times than I was in 17.5T so slowing down to work on my driving and setup is likely best.

I think I want to switch to laydown as the grip at SDRC is good, is it just a case and an idler gear? or does the shaft need to be replaced as well?
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by socalcloin View Post
My ghetto DIY fan mount that I put on my B6.1d finally broke on Saturday. I ran last qualifier and main without the fan. It was really doing it's job well, motor went from cool to the touch after 10min runs to kinda warm (about 130F on the can) after 5min heat.

I decided to just order the schelle battery brace mount I had designed it after, looks pretty simple to just mount to the battery brace. It should fit on the stock brace right? or is the included screw too short?

Also switching to 21.5T sportsman it looked fun. Many of them were running faster lap times than I was in 17.5T so slowing down to work on my driving and setup is likely best.

I think I want to switch to laydown as the grip at SDRC is good, is it just a case and an idler gear? or does the shaft need to be replaced as well?
You should be able to make the fan mount work with a longer screw but it is made specifically for the Schelle strap. For the laydown it is just case and idler, topshaft is the same.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Di_spencer View Post
You should be able to make the fan mount work with a longer screw but it is made specifically for the Schelle strap. For the laydown it is just case and idler, topshaft is the same.
Cool thanks
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:45 PM
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Edited- Not getting into a gearing debate that's settled. Needed to refresh the thread first.

Last edited by Alexv2024; 06-10-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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