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Dealing with traction roll

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Dealing with traction roll

Old 12-25-2017, 10:09 PM
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Default Dealing with traction roll

As the temps have cooled off in CA, the clay grip is really stepping up. As a result I’ve developed a traction roll on my buggy and sct. I’ve tried a few small things, they work great otherwise except for a few turns, but nothing has solved it.

In general, as traction goes up, you want the car to get harder, right? Thicker oils, harder spring package, lower roll center, lower ride height.

Or do I have it backwards?
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Old 12-25-2017, 10:32 PM
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Higher roll center...you want the inside of the camber links lower. This reduces side bite and allows the car to "drift" a little. I'm assuming you're running clay compound tires. Anything softer will contribute to the roll. Also, increasing negative camber can reduce tire contact patch to free up the car a little more. A harder spring package may be helpful, or even the same spring rates with the addition of a front sway bar to keep the inside rear wheel from unloading as violently on corner entry. Remember that as the temps come down, the shock oil will act thicker. We haven't messed with piston or oil changes in our foray into high bite, so hopefully someone else will chime in. Most of my experience is on low to medium bite, but we've been running some high bite lately and learning quickly that it's not as easy as it looks LOL. I'll have to watch this thread because it may be helpful to me as well.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:30 AM
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Not really an offroad dude... But if grip is up in onroad you need to usually get softer/lower roll center (or work on your front tire sidewall glue game)
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Not really an offroad dude... But if grip is up in onroad you need to usually get softer/lower roll center (or work on your front tire sidewall glue game)
Lower ride height would probably be first and more noticeable. Then I'd try more negative camber.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by a1 View Post
Lower ride height would probably be first and more noticeable. Then I'd try more negative camber.
Removing a little front and rear droop, going to thicker sway bars, raising your rear roll center and lowering your ride height are the things that I do when I have grip roll issues. I race on high grip dirt and clay surfaces on a regular basis too.
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Thomas2225 View Post
Removing a little front and rear droop, going to thicker sway bars, raising your rear roll center and lowering your ride height are the things that I do when I have grip roll issues. I race on high grip dirt and clay surfaces on a regular basis too.
I forgot about reducing droop. That also helps
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:42 PM
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reducing ride height in the front 1-2mm can help too... not uncommon for the rear to be higher... especially if you don't want to give up rear traction. If the car starts to push then you can lower to rear to balance out traction if necessary.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
reducing ride height in the front 1-2mm can help too... not uncommon for the rear to be higher... especially if you don't want to give up rear traction. If the car starts to push then you can lower to rear to balance out traction if necessary.
dropped the ride heights 2mm all around and lowered the inside camber links. seemed to have made the problem worse actually. didn't help the roll and I noticed I started picking up the inside front and rear tires on turns that were before, just fine. Had to slow down and let the car settle a bit before the turn. It's avoidable, but I know it can be more aggressive.

I'll try reducing the front a bit more on the ride height.

I didn't touch droop at all -- that's next.

appreciate all the help.


Edit: As i typed this I was looking at the car. I only changed the roll center in front. The track was so busy and I was helping a few new guys out with their xmas toys that I must have gotten distracted. doh....
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Last edited by mstrfahrenheit; 12-26-2017 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Ninja edit cause I'm a dope :)
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:01 PM
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It may help if we knew what buggy and SCT you speck of but... With my Traxxas trucks it was putting a sway bar in the back and filling the gear diff with black grease. But, they are HCG trucks and prone to roll anyway. Also try a less aggressive tire set-up. An M3 compound instead of M4 on the rear to start. (Pro-line even still use that scale?) Shorter upper links in the rear too may help. Move them in one hole on the hub and bulkhead. Try to get the rear to "come around" and not "dig in". If you have any kind of VLA set-up you can try running the pins out board on the rear hubs and in board on the front hubs. Some people like to slow down there steering servo too. Just plan accordingly as it will not react as fast. Moving the shocks out more on the arms and tower can help too. But, everyone drives different so adjustments are different.

Side note all info is with ten+ year old trucks on an indoor clay track and may not work with these fancy buggys and trucks that are out now.

Or just slow down for the turn. See sig V
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Old 12-27-2017, 07:09 AM
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Is the track you race at LSR speedway? I have a problem with traction rolling at the end of the straight there. You definately need to let off early and hold slight throttle to roll out of it
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:18 PM
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No. last time I was racing weekly or all for that matter was when SoCal down south was open. I just moved up north and have yet to find a track to run at. I.E. the old info note in my post.
Where is LSR?

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Old 12-27-2017, 11:39 PM
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Lowering the ride height is only part of the solution. You need to take some droop away too. Otherwise, you have a bunch of up travel, which means a bunch of weight transfer, which leads to traction rolls. Once you have a couple mm of shims added under your shock pistons, you can unscrew your shock eyelets to change droop settings without taking the shocks apart.

Sway bars are another thing that will help with traction rolling. If it is happening going into the corner, then a front sway bar will help. Traction rolling coming out of the corner means you need a rear sway bar.

Raising the roll center (making the inner hinge pin and inner ball stud closer together) will resist suspension roll too. Same thing as the sway bars, if it is traction rolling going in adjust the front, coming out adjust the rear.

The thing is, our suspension geometry has a sweet spot at a small ride height range, and lowering the car too much can throw off the handling. I run hubs and spindles that lower my ride height by 3mm. So even though my car is at 19mm of ride height, the suspension geometry thinks the car is at 22mm.

Finally, there are a couple other things you can do. If you are saucing tires, maybe only sauce the inside half of the front tires. How you drive can have a huge factor in how often your car traction rolls. If you know your car likes to traction roll in one corner, but is great everywhere else, just work on being extra smooth in that one corner. If you make a changes to combat the traction rolling in one corner, it could make your car worse on other parts of the track.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:10 AM
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softer springs - keeps cg low when rolling into a turn
thicker oil - slows weight transfer
lower roll centre - promotes roll and keeps cg low
more droop - keeps unsprung weight closer to the ground buy not lifting off

It's going against instincts but allowing the car to roll more at a slower rate (thicker oil) allows the weight to transfer slowly, keeping cg low and helps prevent traction rolls.

This works for both on & offroad.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:42 AM
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LSR is in sacramento
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:05 AM
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Why not just change tires and inserts first before making wholesale chassis changes
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