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Old 02-01-2006, 02:16 PM   #1
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Default Universals vs. Dogbones

Is there a significant difference between the two? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

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Old 02-01-2006, 05:32 PM   #2
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my first question to you would be what platform (vehicle are you inquiring into?) it varies from 2 wheel to 4wheel to truck.
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:38 PM   #3
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universals are more reliable in a sense that they dont pop out like dogbones do. I also like using them in the front of the car because thay have less binding
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:00 PM   #4
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Dogbones offer less overall performance compared to CVDs which are more efficient in transfering power to the wheels but in extremely bumpy conditions you may find pros using dogbones as they let the rear suspension move more freely under heavy load.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:39 PM   #5
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I would be interested in knowing if anyone has ever really done a proper test comaring the efficeincy of dogbones versus MIP CVD's. I myself highly doubt that the CVD's would have any real advantage.

According to everything I've read though is that CVD's will give you better forward traction, and dogbones will give you better in corner grip and better compliancy over the rough stuff. This is becuase the CVD's want to return to being straight more than a dogbone does, thus apparentally putting more pressure on the rear tires, and also binding up the suspension action.

I'm actually going to pick up some dogbones to try out at the big winternats race in march, the track will most likely be very rutted up from the 8th scales. I figure that the dogbones ought to help a bit, I'm going to try some RPM 2 stage pistons as well...

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Old 02-01-2006, 10:23 PM   #6
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Universals are tightened against the axle hubs, so they dont slide around on that end but they slide around the diff cup end when the suspension arms go up and down.

Dogbones slide around the diff cup end as well as the axle end so if they are too short, they fall out, if they are too long, they hit against the cups and bind the suspension (preventing full travel). Unfortunately being short enough not to bind most off-road suspensions also means being short enough to fall out unless the dogbones stay right smack in the very middle between the two cups. This means you need some greased o-rings in both cups to act as springs to push the dogbones back to the middle. At just about any time, the dogbone is touching one of these o-rings so there's always going to be a little more friction with dogbones. Also, the dogbones are never really in the center of the diff cup since the cups are always going to be just slightly bigger than the bones and gravity would pull it down to the bottom of the cup when the car is stationary while the rotational forces would bounce it around inside the cups once it starts spinning. The same thing happens with the boney end of the universal shaft but at least the axle end is bolted to hub center (theoretically anyway).

I don't like the idea of dogbones on the front of any car since the steering combined with suspension travel puts quite an angle on the joint, and most axle dogbone cups don't really allow a sharp angle without binding.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:26 PM   #7
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:14 AM   #8
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Dogbones when worn , will cause so much grief you might think your chassis is tweeked , I have found universals actually caused less bind in the rough stuff and allowed better forward bite going through a really long washboard section than bones, but you really have to do your shocks up proper or the car will kick .
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Old 02-02-2006, 07:29 AM   #9
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Universals all the way. you don't have to rebuild them!
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:09 AM   #10
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This is a comparison best made on the Associated B4. This car has a chioce of CVD universals or Dogbones. The dogbones are used as a tuning aid for rough tracks or situations where more rear sidebite is desireable. The CVD in particular has a subtle binding effect that maked the joint want to straighten out under load. It feels like adding a degree of anti squat compared to dogbones. In good condition, dogbones actually allow the suspension to work more freely under power. CVD's help the car to "square up" and accelerate more aggressively. The effect is caused by the larger cross pin that goes through the axle.

Most Losi drivers change out their CVD's in favor of molded universals because Losi cars have superior forward bite but do not rotate in turns as well as the Associated car.
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