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Old 02-07-2006, 10:38 AM   #106
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Moving on..

I think that 4wd offroad is going to be the next "Touring Car." I mean, the price of touring cars is getting out of control, and I think alot of racers are going to see 4wd offroad as being a better alternative. I think the "boom" of touring cars has levelled off now and racers are looking for something new to try. Falling back on an "oldie but a goodie" class seems more natural than trying something totally different. Racing a 4wd buggy that has a chassis that's 80-90% identical to a touring car that you've been racing isn't as big of a stretch as say, going from touring cars to 1/8th scale buggies or a 2wd electric. When Losi jumped into the 4wd market, there were only 3 other real 4wd offroad racing buggies (YZ-10, Cat series, and the Lazer) so it was easier to jump in and totally dominate. Tamiya is balls to the wall in a class where there are almost as many brands of cars as there are racers (touring car), so I don't think they're afraid of offroad. It's impossible for any company to claim that they dominate the touring class, and right now it's a stretch to say that Losi still has a stranglehold on 4wd offroad.
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:42 AM   #107
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Hi bender , i think its your old car . Did it belong to Bruce Davidson? a silver top force evo with light weight diffs and carbon prop shaft and a heap of spur gears and pinions in a wooden box????
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Old 02-07-2006, 12:38 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadRacer
Hi bender , i think its your old car . Did it belong to Bruce Davidson? a silver top force evo with light weight diffs and carbon prop shaft and a heap of spur gears and pinions in a wooden box????
No, that was actually Bruce's car. He bought the Evo after seeing my standard version win a couple of big meetings here.

That is a great car - very light, and very fast!
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Old 02-08-2006, 08:40 AM   #109
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Dang that looks like it's going to be a great little buggy...I wonder if they'll include a class in the TCS races for it!!!
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Old 02-08-2006, 04:00 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serzoni
Moving on..

I think that 4wd offroad is going to be the next "Touring Car." I mean, the price of touring cars is getting out of control, and I think alot of racers are going to see 4wd offroad as being a better alternative. I think the "boom" of touring cars has levelled off now and racers are looking for something new to try. Falling back on an "oldie but a goodie" class seems more natural than trying something totally different. Racing a 4wd buggy that has a chassis that's 80-90% identical to a touring car that you've been racing isn't as big of a stretch as say, going from touring cars to 1/8th scale buggies or a 2wd electric. When Losi jumped into the 4wd market, there were only 3 other real 4wd offroad racing buggies (YZ-10, Cat series, and the Lazer) so it was easier to jump in and totally dominate. Tamiya is balls to the wall in a class where there are almost as many brands of cars as there are racers (touring car), so I don't think they're afraid of offroad. It's impossible for any company to claim that they dominate the touring class, and right now it's a stretch to say that Losi still has a stranglehold on 4wd offroad.
At least we can agree on something but you forgot something as well. Tamiya started the touring car revolution based on their buggy chassis (manta ray/top force) and Tamiya started big in Off Road instead of On Road. In fact, at one point, they rather be on top of Off Road rather than On Road.

Their main problem right now is design. Over the years, their barrier to succeed was their unwillingness to give in to available design. Tamiya wants a car that screams Tamiya when people see it. They are somewhat inept to honor their past by designing a car that has lineage history attach to it rather than a completely new car. I think this is why they cancelled out that belt driven buggy two to three years ago because Tamiya NEVER MADE BELT OFF ROAD buggy prior to that prototype. Weird, huh? Thus, they don't want a "me too" product like they did in Touring car.

Sure, everybody recognizes it (415) as a Tamiya but soon everybody copied it so it losts some originality (considering it was never Tamiya's original to begin with). To them it was the car that got the World Championship.

I think they almost went Kyosho route a few years back by developing several buggies based on TB Evo series but I think this is their shining moment. They have until next summer to develop the TRF version to be ready for the 2007 World Championship. It surely sounds exciting to me. I can't wait to get my hands on it this summer or at least they would let me buy it at RCX =P

PS: I took a second look at the steerint servo mount. My internet engineering is still possible although it requires more work this time because apparently the front servo mount is "hanging" off the battery bay. I can try to shave the rear mount to about 2mm below the bottom point of the front servo mount. Here is the picture of the 9550:

As you can see, that small nudge in between the screw holes (pun not intended) can be shaved to clear out any intrusion in installing MY (internet engineering) way. Two long fine metric screws (length to be determined) plus two lock nuts. Done. Here is the super exposed picture of the steering servo mount:
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:13 AM   #111
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Fabulous- lol, at your argument...

Check this out, Tamiya's site claims the buggy is intented for racing...
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/ite...oduct-id=58370
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:18 AM   #112
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Regardless of how "basic" the standard car is, there is no doubt it has been designed with racing in mind, rather than bashing.

The fact that Tamiya already have a number of basher-orientated 4wds available, plus the uniqueness of this design, all seem a bit strange if it was done with the intention of being just another basher.

I can't believe that with all those clear display stands at the show, that nobody managed to get a picture of the car from underneath
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Old 02-27-2006, 11:22 PM   #113
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I take back what I said about the drivetrain inefficiency. It's possible to have the same number of gears and direction changes in this layout as in a normal TC3/LazerZX-5 layout.

No new news on this thing
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Old 02-28-2006, 02:28 AM   #114
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cant wait to see the real thing
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:21 AM   #115
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I am definitely looking forward to this vehicle!
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:48 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim600
I take back what I said about the drivetrain inefficiency. It's possible to have the same number of gears and direction changes in this layout as in a normal TC3/LazerZX-5 layout.

No new news on this thing
Sorry, it's not possible. It would be possible if the main shaft was kept at the same height as the other 4wd's - you would simply need long offset diff halves with the crown gears on the same side (one normal, one reversed).

Unfortunately, as soon as you raise the driveshaft, then additional gears are required to take the drive from the shaft-bevel gears back to the crown gears.

It is easy to see from just looking at the gearbox housings that there are 2 extra gears, therefore 2 extra friction points.

As Doughty said, the rear gearbox is simply a 3-gear 2wd setup, with a bevel gear coming off the idler gear.
However, as I've mentioned b4, run-time in off road isn't an issue so there's no need for anyone to worry about a drivetrain that might cost them 20 seconds of runtime
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:26 PM   #117
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Hmm,

Okay you are right. It's definitely got the 2 extra gears. Didn't see that at first.

It's giving away a bit of efficiency to get that nice 2wd weight distribution but it looks like it doesn't have the advantage of lifted sides like on the 2wds (from the looks of that stand-up servo), but it does look slightly narrower than the touring car layouts. Maybe it'll still be competitive until the rules change towards longer races.

It does look like a serious effort though, with that tiny bumper and that tire pattern. I hope they finally figured out not to use that scale model plastic.
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Old 03-02-2006, 10:13 PM   #118
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hey..you guys all sound like knowledgeable and an experienced bunch of racers.

We race here:

http://www.leisurehoursraceway.com

..with T4's and B4's.

There is a 4WD buggy class when enough of the vehicles show up. We don't own a Losi or MRC or any other 4WD buggy...

My question is, until this new Tamiya comes out here in the States, is it possible to take the Tamiya Top Force, slap some mods/upgrades onto it and make it competitive?

I can't seem to find a photo of the Top Force with it's lid off so I can see how the thing is put together.

For 2wd buggy we run mod with a 10 turn, and losi pink taper pins.

I thought it might be fun to run a third class, and show up with something other than the usual vehicles the other racers run and kick some booty.

Thanks for any info.....
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:35 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagokenji
hey..you guys all sound like knowledgeable and an experienced bunch of racers.

We race here:

http://www.leisurehoursraceway.com

..with T4's and B4's.

There is a 4WD buggy class when enough of the vehicles show up. We don't own a Losi or MRC or any other 4WD buggy...

My question is, until this new Tamiya comes out here in the States, is it possible to take the Tamiya Top Force, slap some mods/upgrades onto it and make it competitive?

I can't seem to find a photo of the Top Force with it's lid off so I can see how the thing is put together.

For 2wd buggy we run mod with a 10 turn, and losi pink taper pins.

I thought it might be fun to run a third class, and show up with something other than the usual vehicles the other racers run and kick some booty.

Thanks for any info.....
Yes and No. Gearing is very limited to Tamiya 0.6 48pitch metric pinions and the aluminum motor mount is quite rare. Don't get me wrong, Top Force used to win back to back England's national championship back to back in its hey day.
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Old 03-05-2006, 01:43 AM   #120
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Default UPDATE!

From Tamiya.co.jp (with translation help from Babelfish.altavista.com)



Item No: 58370
Dark impact

Total length = 387mm
1/10 electromotive RC car series No.370 - DARK IMPACT
* It is the racing buggy which was developed on the basis of the data which is accumulated with encounter. * The new chassis of the shaft drive 4WD which shows the maneuverability which is superior low with the centralization of center of gravity and weight ones, adopting DF-03. * In 4 wheel independent suspension whose setting width is wide the oil damper 4 these equipment. * Building in the ball diff. to the compact front and back gear box. * Full bearing specification.


[ Enlargement picture ]
April 1st [ around Saturday ] the numberof sale 1 梱 entrances: 18,690 Yen (17,800 Yen in substance price)

According to XE.com, 1 JPY = 0.00858922 USD and 1 USD = 116.425 JPY, therefore: 18,690.00 JPY = 160.533 USD

Start saving up you people. I already sent an e-mail inquiring this buggy to R10. Hopefully I'll get an answer on Monday or so. Wish me luck!

Last edited by fabolousRC; 03-05-2006 at 01:57 AM. Reason: pricing error; price conversion.
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