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Old 02-01-2006, 11:15 PM   #31
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Hi Bender.

I know the history because I was there...'Cept about the Coyote; that was a couple years before my time

Actually, having owned a few of the older kits, I can say that quality hasn't changed that much over the years; about the same tolerances on metal and plastic parts. What has changed mostly is the types/grades of plastic, new ceramic bearings, smaller ESCs.... Evolutionary things, really.

Back on the subject of the Avante (oh how I absolutely LOVED that car) I have to say that the transmission on that buggy is/was probably the smoothest I've ever seen. With motor removed, the wheels turned much more freely and much longer than my old Lazer and Alien Mid. I would even say it's smoother than my new Lazer ZX-5, despite being almost 18 years old.

Aside from the hideously overcomplicated suspension, I think the Avante got a very raw deal. The 4wd shootout in RCCA pitted it against the Cat, Yokomo and Kyosho offerings, but all the cars were on their stock tires, and the Avante's were just awful. Had they had the decency to test all the cars on identical tires, the Avante would most likely have been out front... Which was where I usually was whenn I was racing against those very same cars.

Never underestimate Tamiya.
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:29 AM   #32
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Bender, You've got to be kidding me...

I've had old Lazers, they run well but if you think that the picture you posted is a legitimate prototype then the comment about what they are running in Japan has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have no idea how similar or not these cars were to the "old" Lazers which were conventional designs.

New technologies? Ummm, suspension geometry to handle the extremely different tire technologies? The use of molded carbon fiber? Differentials that last? Simplified designs that are easy to work on? adjustable roll centers? (you had to do this with a drill on the original RC10). Try running a B3 against a B4, against an equal driver you'll be smoked by a lap.

Yes, I have seen a Durango. Have you? The drive shafts span across a distance MUCH shorter than the length of a 6 cell side by side pack and the motor is in a much different position which allows there to be a pinion/spur frona and rear gearbox like a TC3. Not a similar design at all.
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Last edited by Davidka; 02-02-2006 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:18 AM   #33
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Here is my take on the CAD drawing.

the way I see it is that it is a typical 2WD style gearbox to the rear diff, a normal layshaft, idler, diff kind of setup.

drive to the front wheels comes from a bevel gear on the end of the spur layshaft. shaft drive to the front wheels into what seems to be a drive cup, into a typical shaft car style front diff setup.

this has the same amount of direction switching in the drive train as a typical shaft car so thats a good thing, you also eleminate the nasty torque twist that shaft cars get with their motor mounted 90 degrees to the chassis.

one thing I would like to see is how much lock they get get on the front wheels of that car with the shocks on the back side of the wishbones.

battery connections could be fun too.
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Old 02-02-2006, 10:27 AM   #34
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I guess I will kick in my two cents as I owned several TA02's and one that had a particular nice chassis which is similar to what I see here as far as the battery pack orientation.

As I recall, the chassis was made by HPI, and coupled with the TA02's gear boxes had the battery pack running right down the middle and really improved handling. the chassi was narrower than what i was used to at the time and the sides were sort of angled up. Anyone else remembers this?

My point is that I do not know if this is a shaft or belt drive, but, if they were doing this as a shaft, based on the hopup chassis I had for the TA02, it is possible. Is it the best design, don't know. TA02s were my bashers other than that one with the center pack chassis, and the touring cars at the time were the HPI PRO2 and I liked it better than my PRO 2.

I am just curious if this is truly a RACE vehicle, or something like the Desert Gator, looks race level, more so than the ordinary Tamiya vehicles, but still basher oriented.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:48 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka
Bender, You've got to be kidding me...

I've had old Lazers, they run well but if you think that the picture you posted is a legitimate prototype then the comment about what they are running in Japan has to be taken with a grain of salt. You have no idea how similar or not these cars were to the "old" Lazers which were conventional designs.
If you're too lazy to do any research then thats you're problem

I have now found 3 websites which have mentioned this car - all 3 of them include a Tamiya kit number and one site has it listed as a "competition 4wd off road racer" in a Tamiya new product pdf file.

With regards to the Lazers, pictures of the A-Main cars are feely available IF YOU CAN BE BOTHERED TO FIND THEM! They were standard ZX-S Evo's - so approx 6 year old cars (but with 12 year old suspension ).

I don't come on these forums to post bullsh!t so I dont appreciate someone insinuating that I am


Quote:
New technologies? Ummm, suspension geometry to handle the extremely different tire technologies? The use of molded carbon fiber? Differentials that last? Simplified designs that are easy to work on? adjustable roll centers? (you had to do this with a drill on the original RC10). Try running a B3 against a B4, against an equal driver you'll be smoked by a lap.
*Molded Carbon fibre has been around for 14 years.
*Losi XX diffs (1993) would last me more than 6 months of 2wd Mod racing without requiring a rebuild, the same with the old RC10 Team car and just about every car I've ever owned from that period.
*Many cars had "easy maintenance" designs as early as 1989 - Yokomo YZ870c being one example.
*Adjustable roll-centres were available on cars from as early as 1983! (as were things like threaded shock bodies too)
*The B4's front suspension geometry and design (with the exception of the c-hubs) is lifted straight from their 1991 worlds car!

If the B4 is a whole lap quicker than a B3- then the B3 must have been an awfull car AE and Losi are fairly evenly matched, and the current Losi is no more than a moderate evolution of their first XXX realeased more than 7 years ago!

I have seen plenty of race results WORLDWIDE that show older cars being completely competative. Start with the off road worlds - what was the most successful Losi - the OLD xx4
In England, the OLD predator is still competative!

Lets see what happens at the Nernburg (sp) show in a few days
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:40 PM   #36
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"I don't come on these forums to post bullsh!t so I dont appreciate someone insinuating that I am"

But that's exactly what you're posting. You lifted the picture from another website and have no idea what the source was. The "competition 4wd buggy thread" I found was a custom project built from a Tamiya TC. It can be found on www.4wdrc.com

Where did these Lazers that are so competitive finish at in the Worlds? How about the U.S. Nationals? Where else are the Predators competitive?

The B4 front end of the B4 and the 91' worlds car are similar in that the shocks are behind the tower and that's it. The 91 car used long shocks ala Stadium trucks and the outer hinge pins mounted to the caster blocks halfway up to the camber link from the normal position.

Whatever, if you want to believe that a design that some kid came up with on his computer is worth your attention then have at it...
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:52 PM   #37
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guys look at this pagehttp://www.rcworld.ch/neueprojekte.asp?id=2760, is says that the car will have a shaft drive (Kardanwelle in german).
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:54 PM   #38
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Now the Tamiyaphiles will be entering the offroad world more! LOL


Would be interesting to see if this buggy gets developed and is competitive...but not super expensive in price.
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
guys look at this pagehttp://www.rcworld.ch/neueprojekte.asp?id=2760, is says that the car will have a shaft drive (Kardanwelle in german).
Not only that, but from what I've been able to translate, the car is also designed to be of competition caliber. That, plus the battery compartment is such that it's designed to be removed from beneath the car, thus eliminating the need to remove the bodywork. Very interesting indeed.

Hopefully they'll decide to drop the "included 540 motor" spec they currently have.
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:07 PM   #40
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yeah that 540 spec motor makes me wonder if this is a competition level car.
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Old 02-02-2006, 02:10 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter.Z
guys look at this pagehttp://www.rcworld.ch/neueprojekte.asp?id=2760, is says that the car will have a shaft drive (Kardanwelle in german).
From online translation :

The 1/10 Buggy is so new that he carries still no name. It was conceived in accordance with Tamiya for the competition employment and had an all-wheel drive over a cardan shaft.
Characteristic, for which Akku is appropriate along centrically in the chassis as usual with 2WD Buggys and installed from down, which makes a fast Akkuwechsel possible, without having to remove the body.

Characteristics
4WD Wettbewerbsbuggy
Independent suspensions all around with double wishbones and CVA oil pressure shock absorbers
Totally enclosed transmission cases for maximum protection from dirt
Completely running in ball bearings
540er engine inclusive.
New rims and tires with larger diameter and width
High Density spike Tires K (4WD/Front, 62/25), High Density spike Tires K (Rear, 62/35)
Large Dish Wheels (4WD/Front, 62/25), Large Dish Wheels (Rear 62/35)
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:32 PM   #42
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DavidKa, your opinion of kids is a little too high I think.
This bizzare coloured cad drawing is just like the others tamiya has released.


Looks good, goodness knows if it will be competitive, I was told by a tamiya chap that the car they were running last year with the B4 shells was based on the 415, i guess he might have been fibbing or just got it wrong ?
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:46 PM   #43
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Guys, this is a Tamiya car.. the tenative name is the "Dark Impact". It's going to be on display at the Nuremberg Toy Fair this month. It's right on Tamiya's site.. stop bullshitting each other fighting over who has the largest e-penis and look at the manufacturer's website.

http://tamiya.com/english/nurn2006/index.htm


1/10 R/C Racing 4WD Buggy Dark Impact (Tentative name)
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:59 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serzoni
Guys, this is a Tamiya car.. the tenative name is the "Dark Impact". It's going to be on display at the Nuremberg Toy Fair this month. It's right on Tamiya's site..
http://tamiya.com/english/nurn2006/index.htm

1/10 R/C Racing 4WD Buggy Dark Impact (Tentative name)
Well, I hate to say I told you so, but...

Thanks for the link Serzoni, I couldn't find it on Tamiya's site as I was looking at the Japanese version, because the English version is often a week or two out of date.

Sorry for the arguments, I was just trying to defend myself from accusations that i had something to do with this so called "fake"
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Old 02-02-2006, 09:37 PM   #45
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Yeah yeah, you'll have told me so when Tamiya releases a 4wd car with a center mounted battery and a shaft drive passing over the battery and a motor/spur gear that mounts perpendicular to the whole shebang.
When that happens I'll come back and apologize humbily.
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