R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-22-2006, 07:42 PM   #151
Tech Fanatic
 
fabolousRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jakarta...lah
Posts: 933
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to fabolousRC Send a message via Yahoo to fabolousRC
Default

Bender...internet engineers lolz remember our arguments before the car/manual was launched? I'm still waiting to order mine from Tower. It's not perfect but it's pretty close and from what I read on the other board, not having the slipper does not deter people from running brushless and leaving its competition worth three times as much in the dust. Hopefully this car will be in stock on my next next paycheck (just got a new job).

partywagon-There is a manual on tamiya.com/japanese page for DF03. Read it and read it well. Dremel-ing the chassis won't help lightening the car, it will weakened it considerably because the way Tamiya mold the chassis. The only way if Tamiya ever going to lighten up the chassis is to make them ala TA04R with carbon reinforced chassis. As a basic car, it is already light and strong enough. You cannot treat the chassis like an 8th scale. This is plastic my man. If you install a rod on top you might want to install a rod on bottom and soon enough you got rods all over the place! Metal, it is a different story. With plastic, you strenghten the top, you'll weaken the bottom. The only thing I can see from that is a carbon fiber top deck ala TT01. That makes more sense because the square area flex reduction is more broadened compared to a single rod. Plus, Carbon fiber is lighter...and you're talking about dremel-ing the chassis too?

Captain Harlock-If you see the layout of DF03, you can say this is Top Force Evolution II. You'd probably want TF Evo II.5 with carbon fiber parts installed instead

Oh yeah...go to the other forum because there were several guys that runs stock DI with brushless already. It's fine. The tranny can hold up the power just fine.
fabolousRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 12:52 AM   #152
Tech Master
 
bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,504
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by party_wagon
I did not say remove parts of the car and replace them with a tie rod. I said add the tie rod to run from the front transmission case to the rear transmission case if you can flex the chasis horizontaly.
Oh really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by party_wagon
Secondly I would take a dremmel to that chassis and completely lighten it up. I'm pretty sure you can tell where theres points that just don't matter. Once you have done this. Go out and pick up a long tie rod. Mount it from the rear transmission case to the front transmission case. This will serve as an excellent upper deck.
Seems to me that's exactly what you said:
Take a dremel to the chassis and remove the bits that don't matter. Then mount up a tie-rod as an upperdeck

Anyway, there's no point in debating it - if you buy one you can do whatever you want to it, it's up to you, but for now this thread is for DI owners to trade ideas, results etc and to let interested people know the good and bad points of the car .
__________________
Jason W
FIR#2 - "You can't buy this much talent"
Durango Dex410 - Schumacher Cougar SV - Top Photon
bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 04:57 AM   #153
Tech Initiate
 
Captain Harlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 48
Default

Well, does any of you know if they- Tamiya- will come up with a modified DI for REAL racing to compete against the Yokomo and Kyosho?
Captain Harlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2006, 08:14 AM   #154
Tech Fanatic
 
fabolousRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jakarta...lah
Posts: 933
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to fabolousRC Send a message via Yahoo to fabolousRC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Harlock
Well, does any of you know if they- Tamiya- will come up with a modified DI for REAL racing to compete against the Yokomo and Kyosho?
Like some of the new DI owners mentioned, the gearboxes are seperate from the chassis THEREFORE there is a slim chance that Tamiya might come up with CF double deck with aluminum/nylon strengtening/stiffening parts ala Top Force FRP conversion or ala 415/TB EVO series double deck system. Don't put your hopes up yet.

That's on Tamiya...

HOWEVER,

There is a better chance that any of the Tamiya loyalist aftermarket parts manufacturers (aka 3Racing, Square, etc) might come up with such part at a significantly higher price than what Tamiya might charge and it will definitely answer what most DF03 users wanted to begin with. At this point, if you happen to buy the car NIB, at 200-250USD a piece for the conversion kit, you better off buying X5, XX4-WC, XXX-4G+, ZX-5, and Yokomo. It is only worth it when you ran the car for awhile and you felt like it was flexing too much of your liking. For most basher, you won't noticed it (except probably the shock towers...they are just too obviously too soft for anything but bashing). There are many users from otherboards that built and ran their DI with brushless and have no problem with it (alias quite happy).

Buy it and run it first before worrying cuz that's what I'm gonna do Two more weeks to go *sigh*
fabolousRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2006, 10:09 PM   #155
Tech Master
 
akuhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,155
Default

Does anyone know if Tamiya hop up part :
Tamiya 53028 Thundershot Universal Shaft Cup Set

Will fit DI fr suspension shaft perfectly ? It's use in Top Force fr arm shaft suspension.

Thx
akuhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2006, 12:52 AM   #156
Tech Elite
 
WheelNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Ab
Posts: 3,210
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to WheelNut
Default

Fabolous- DO you really think Tamiya would go through all the trouble of designing all that suspension geometry without giving us a racing version?
__________________
•Brad Comis
WheelNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2006, 04:16 AM   #157
Tech Master
 
bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,504
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Personally, I don't see why you'd actually WANT a dual-deck carbon chassis.

A carbon composite version of the standard chassis would be far better imo because of several reasons:

*It will be cheaper to buy
*It will be stiffer (no dual-deck c/f chassis can match the overall stiffness of a graphite tub)
*It offers better protection to the cars internals WITHOUT requiring an undertray.
*It will be lighter

I hope they follow what they did with the TA05 and release the majority of plastic components in a graphite composite

Quote:
Does anyone know if Tamiya hop up part :
Tamiya 53028 Thundershot Universal Shaft Cup Set

Will fit DI fr suspension shaft perfectly ? It's use in Top Force fr arm shaft suspension.
I think it will, but I'm not sure. Go to the Tamiya Club site HERE and ask on their forums.

Otherwise, the DF02 cvds are a perfect fit
__________________
Jason W
FIR#2 - "You can't buy this much talent"
Durango Dex410 - Schumacher Cougar SV - Top Photon
bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2006, 08:05 PM   #158
Tech Elite
 
WheelNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Edmonton, Ab
Posts: 3,210
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to WheelNut
Default

Oh of course thats why your 415MSX uses a molded tub right?
__________________
•Brad Comis
WheelNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2006, 09:09 PM   #159
Tech Master
 
akuhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bender

Otherwise, the DF02 cvds are a perfect fit
Hai Bender,

Thanks for the info. About the adapter you've mentioned before, will he send Sydney. I have relatives there. and the price is AUD ?

For the DF-02 CVD, does it make by Tamiya ? Do you know the part number ?

Thanks, mate.

Rgds,
akuhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 12:49 AM   #160
Tech Fanatic
 
fabolousRC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Jakarta...lah
Posts: 933
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to fabolousRC Send a message via Yahoo to fabolousRC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelNut
Oh of course thats why your 415MSX uses a molded tub right?
Let me answer this one first....Huh? Which 415MSX that use molded tub?

Second answer....If you followed Tamiya as long as I do, you know how long Tamiya had been half-assing their off road competition cars, right? Do you want a recent example? What do you call a high performance 2WD car that can only race with two pinion options? Answer: Desert Gator.

Oh and bender, you know as well as I know, Tamiya ALWAYS over design on their off road cars.

Besides, DF03 looked too similar to Top Force not to have a double decker as an option.
fabolousRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 01:52 AM   #161
Tech Master
 
akuhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabolousRC
...

Besides, DF03 looked too similar to Top Force ....
Are you sure.. ?
To me it's totally different chassis.
And TF is just a refinement of Manta Ray which based on TA02 chassis..
akuhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 02:01 AM   #162
Tech Master
 
akuhon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabolousRC
....If you followed Tamiya as long as I do, you know how long Tamiya had been half-assing their off road competition cars, right? Do you want a recent example? What do you call a high performance 2WD car that can only race with two pinion options? Answer: Desert Gator.
...
Yes, but start this millenium (200x), they get serious...
After sweeping IFMAR twice consecutively for on-road... I think they'll do the same thing for off-road EP....
akuhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 02:03 AM   #163
Tech Adept
 
capellone24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 100
Default

i agree with bender ......the dual deck design has many problems....it tweeks easy in first of all and the tension are not distribuitable right in design process.....in the tub chassis design all little curve and is studied to maximize the right tension distribuition and with the modern analysys teqniques all the force-stress sets are simulated and solved correctly becouse tub design has more room to solve the problems ......i think that the dual deck carbon fiber design is in first used for commercial reason (many people would not spend 450$ for a plastic looks car...ok i too :-D) and again in onroad racing if don't make mistake your car will not tweak...in offroad the stress on the chassis are much more at landing of the jumps....so i think that the molded tub graphite chassis is the right choise for the racing application.....see B4 and XX4 as example...
Bye!
capellone24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 03:05 AM   #164
Tech Master
 
bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,504
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelNut
Oh of course thats why your 415MSX uses a molded tub right?
Well Capellone24 already pretty much said what I was going to say , but I'll chime in anyway...

The MSX demonstrates my point perfectly - a dual-deck c/f chassis that flexes like mad

Is that what you want for the rigors of off-road? I don't think so.

In offroad, You are subjecting the drivetrain in particular to much more stress than in touring cars, the last thing you need is a chassis that is flexing everywhere causing drivetrain mis-alignment. Especially when you add bumps and jumps into the equation.

Think about the XX4 - It is A LOT stiffer than the dual-deck setup of the BJ4, imagine a c/f version of the XX4 - it would be terrible!

I love c/f, but for off road, the moulded tub is the best way to make cars, even if it doesn't look that good.
There is nothing else out there that can match the overall balance of price, stiffness, durability, resistance to tweak, and internal component protection that a composite tub chassis offers, and that's why it is so popular in off road.

With the exception of possible big crashes, touring cars offers a less stressed life for a chassis, and that, with the tunable aspect of different thickness c/f plate, means manufacturers can make as many flexy c/f cars as they like (415, cyclone etc). It also allows them to build stiffer cars when/if required (Schumacher EC foam, 415 4mm chassis etc) at a cost far less than redesigning composite chassis moulds.

Finally, as Capellone24 mentioned, there is a commercial aspect as well. Most of us seem ok to spend US$400+ on a car, as long as it's full of c/f and alloy, but ask us to spend the same on a car that is essentially "plastic" and we'd say NO thanks

Would you pay an extra $100 for a B4 or XXX just because it had a c/f chassis on it and offered no performance advantage?
__________________
Jason W
FIR#2 - "You can't buy this much talent"
Durango Dex410 - Schumacher Cougar SV - Top Photon
bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2006, 03:10 AM   #165
Tech Master
 
bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,504
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabolousRC
Besides, DF03 looked too similar to Top Force not to have a double decker as an option.
I'll admist you've lost me there

Having raced a Top Force in the past, I can say without doubt that the Dark Impact is nothing like it!

I hope you're wrong about the c/f chassis. I like the design just the way it is, I don't want to have to start using crappy undertrays again just to protect a flexy c/f chassis
__________________
Jason W
FIR#2 - "You can't buy this much talent"
Durango Dex410 - Schumacher Cougar SV - Top Photon
bender is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
THE SCOOP ON DROOP XRAY2 Electric On-Road 3 03-21-2008 03:34 PM
Scoop Hirosaka NRX-12 MrUnlimited Electric On-Road 13 02-17-2006 09:20 PM
Scoop: Carisma 1/18 MrUnlimited Electric On-Road 6 02-14-2006 11:23 PM
Need some ideas on fitting air scoop, Xrayskid Electric On-Road 0 01-06-2006 05:38 PM
Motor Cooling Scoop R40Victim Electric On-Road 14 02-20-2005 11:21 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:01 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net