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Gyros?

Old 07-06-2021, 05:14 PM
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Default Gyros?

While there is so much fuss about gyros for steering, how's it that every drag specific feature coming out, is basically a "gyro" for the application of throttle?

Would this class benefit from spec radios, and ESCs with no features?

I'm just asking?
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:07 AM
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I agree; it's a little hypocritical to whine about steering gyros but program in a 5-step throttle control.

That said, I've only seen success from the ones running the DRK (with a lot of overconfidence). Tekin is still too snappy. I'd really like to know why the RS Pro and RX8 are running 120% max throttle. I think you can do better when you learn the car on it's own, at least for a straight-up class. It serves better for bracket classes, but that definitely encroaches on being a "gyro" for throttle.
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Old 07-08-2021, 05:40 AM
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It's just so funny to see guys frustrated at the end of a long day of test-n-tuning, because they weren't able to figure out how to make their equipment reliably drive their cars down the track for them... 🤦‍♂️
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:43 PM
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I get the idea. Hell, I was trying to do it too. And frankly, it's good in theory. If you've seen ESC data logs or GNSS graphs, even the most practiced driver cant compete with how smoothly a computer can control the throttle.

What is cheating, would be to use the "Perfect Pass" module. There's a pretty big gray area between that and driving without assists.

Sadly, I think this is an important consideration that nobody thought about before the DRK swept the market. Now they're just too common for anybody to write rules against.

I turned off my launch control and just started driving the car myself. Everyone at the track was all "Whoa, your car runs better! What did you do?!"
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Old 07-13-2021, 06:16 AM
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With all the 'helpers' available,we might as well race slot cars. Drag racing should be 'all motor, all driver'
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr casual View Post
Drag racing should be 'all motor, all driver'
That was the argument against gyros when I went to the local rules meeting at the beginning of the season. If the DRK is just how it's going to be, I guess I can live with it, but I think programmable throttle control should probably be outlawed for Bracket classes and 13.5t. Steering gyros are commonly allowed in bracket, but I think that should probably be different too.

Real cars don't have throttle control. Real, top level competition drag cars don't have throttle control.
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Old 07-19-2021, 11:10 PM
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Gyros are YUMMY. That LAMB MEAT IS D E L I S H with the tomatoes and Tzatziki sauce. MMM MMMM MMMMM

But where NP goes. there are penalties for crossing center lines, going out of bounds etc. So having Gyro enabled would be a kind of cheat. That much different than Staged timing on throttle application? Maybe, maybe not. However steering is fundamental.

There is a bit of back and forth about it, but generally I think newbs/kids should be able to use Steering Assits in a Gyro, but at some point, everyone need to get off the TEET and deal with the situation.
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Old 07-20-2021, 08:23 PM
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Good discussion and points. How would an organizer tech for a non assist class?
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Old 07-21-2021, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by myndesye View Post
While there is so much fuss about gyros for steering, how's it that every drag specific feature coming out, is basically a "gyro" for the application of throttle?

Would this class benefit from spec radios, and ESCs with no features?

I'm just asking?
Do these drag specific features use a computer to detect environmental variables (such as wheel slip) and adjust the throttle accordingly? It was my understanding that the Maclan simply adjusts the timing boost (or throttle, I don't remember) based on time. A gyro on the other hand detects yaw/pitch/roll and steers the car.
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Old 07-21-2021, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001 View Post
Do these drag specific features use a computer to detect environmental variables (such as wheel slip) and adjust the throttle accordingly? It was my understanding that the Maclan simply adjusts the timing boost (or throttle, I don't remember) based on time. A gyro on the other hand detects yaw/pitch/roll and steers the car.
It isnt just timing, but throttle percentage and ramp too. The problem is that you can setup the maclan so you just bury the trigger and worry about steering. Taking out the need to learn to throttle the car is, to me, just like taking out the need to steer the car with a gyro.

I think we need to be driving the cars, not just telling them when to go and watching them do the work.
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Old 07-21-2021, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nineball View Post
It isnt just timing, but throttle percentage and ramp too. The problem is that you can setup the maclan so you just bury the trigger and worry about steering. Taking out the need to learn to throttle the car is, to me, just like taking out the need to steer the car with a gyro.

I think we need to be driving the cars, not just telling them when to go and watching them do the work.
You still have to tune the stages to the track / conditions. Whether you set up your throttle curve digitally or train your brain, you are still doing something. This is no different than adjusting throttle curve on an ESC or a decent transmitter, which has been not only legal but encouraged in on-road racing for ages. A gyro does all the work steering using sensors. ie you put the car down and it does all the tuning.
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Old 07-21-2021, 10:32 PM
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The DRK launch control is timed based EPA. The turbo is no different than any other mod ESC with adjustable slew rate and a time delay. The DRK simplified ESC tuning for the masses, but there is not one all mighty tune you can program to make sub 2.1 passes. What separates the quick and the really fast people now is still your tire program, managing voltage drop and gearing. The surface you test on makes a huge difference in your tune. I can say after a lot of testing a 2 degree difference in slew rate or .05 seconds on a launch control stage can make a .1 - .15 difference with your ET. Bottom line is if you want to be fast, you still need to put in the time.

I have hundreds of passes learning how my car reacts to changes on the DRK... i have tune that works for different surfaces and i know where i need to back off the tune as the night goes on, temperature drops and humidity rises.

You can do the same thing as the DRK launch control with higher end radios (7PX and the M17 / M12). Pre DRK, many people were using throttle curve, speed and shifting using programmable EPA on these radios. Most of the fast guys running Tekin ESC's are still doing this with good success. The advantage here is you can get an even smoother power band than the DRK's shifting. Smoother power band means less voltage drop. More voltage during your run means more motor RPM.

The DRK is making it easier for people to go faster, but its not going to fix a car with poor chassis setup or not consistently setting up the car the same for every pass. I think for anyone not cleaning tires every pass, charging your battery every pass and isn't actively trying to manage voltage drop; the competition running a DRK shouldn't be your concern.

As far as steering gyro's; having to steer the car can be just as important as your tuning. If your crossing the line or crashing you have no chance of winning. Even the best car's don't always go straight.

And for 13.5, a bunch of guys are in the 2.7's with their 13.5 cars here. None of them are using any type of launch control with it. 13.5 is all about gearing, chassis setup and tire program. If your doing anything other than going 0 to 100% throttle at the start, your going to lose.
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