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Old 02-08-2012, 01:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
I remember the grip wasn't anything special that week.
I struggled with setup on the 12LW there.

Paragon, on new rug, is nothing like JTG on new rug.

In fact, I don't recall any 12th scale grip roll back then ?
I would imagine the tires were probably harder compounds than used now?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #17
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I would imagine the tires were probably harder compounds than used now?
Yeah, probably.
I think it was mostly Yokomo, PSE & Paragon donuts.
The new CRC rug is much better as well.

A cool project when I get some time, is to put together a 6 cell car as it was back in the day, brushed mod motor, tires and all, and run it to see what the pace is compared to now.

Sounds like just the job for my SP12
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:58 PM   #18
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Thanks for posting. I had it in VHS, but can no longer watch it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:42 PM   #19
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I thought the track was giant.... 18sec laptimes for an indoor track..
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:15 PM   #20
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Wow you arent kidding, that looks like 17.5 boosted speed. And we wonder why no new people are racing rc. This was the fastest of the fast. Now its the slowest of the slow.
One of the things you have to remember is that you could not pull the trigger all the way until maybe the last 3 to 2.5 minutes and you could only do that if you had unobtainable batteries. You can see moments during the race when Masami or Tony would pull the trigger and the cars would go a lot faster. It was a challenge to get the cars to last 8 minutes. You never did warmup laps and your pit guy would take your car to the grid, turn your car on, push the car so you could trim the steering and then turn the car off until just before the start of the race. We also used to use "bump boxes" which where chargers connected to several battery packs that was kept plugged into your car until just before the start of the race. It was all about throttle control.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:25 PM   #21
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Wow you arent kidding, that looks like 17.5 boosted speed. And we wonder why no new people are racing rc. This was the fastest of the fast. Now its the slowest of the slow.
STOP MAKING SENSE! You should know it is not allowed here!

I wish the "Powers that Be" were listening...
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:04 PM   #22
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A Link to this was posted on facebook by Humpty - nice find!

The was the 1992 IFMAR 1/12th World Championships in Grand Rapids Michagan...and man do these guys look young!

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
I thought this video didn't exist

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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Sweet.

Will have to check that out later.


Fast Fashion - Still the coolest 12th scale body ever in all time everywhere...

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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
Wow you arent kidding, that looks like 17.5 boosted speed. And we wonder why no new people are racing rc. This was the fastest of the fast. Now its the slowest of the slow.
The cars maybe but the drivers we're best in all 12th history definately

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Originally Posted by DJGonzo69 View Post
Wow everyone looked so young!!!
Kevin Jellich was still a teen..LOL
Can't beleive we actually use those parachute pants...hahahaha!!
And looked at the P170 Panasonic cells...I can feel the dump at the 4 min mark. Great times!!!
I think Kevin was 18 still living at home just down the street from me. I remember Kevin calling me from Michigan giving me the low down and how he qualified. 12th was so cool then and to get A-main commentary directly from Kevin was awesome. I remember Kevin using my custom fully linear dampener conversion plate system that I made out of titanium and Kevin qualified 9th with Rick 10th both for Peak Performance

Just don't think 12th will ever be like that again and if I remember correctly there we're heats or mains where Kevin was passing both Tony and Masami

It may have also been true that Kevin was using huge rear tires and very small front's and several worlds drivers copied his setups. Kevin was very innovative and could think outside the box when others couldn't

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One of the things you have to remember is that you could not pull the trigger all the way until maybe the last 3 to 2.5 minutes and you could only do that if you had unobtainable batteries. You can see moments during the race when Masami or Tony would pull the trigger and the cars would go a lot faster. It was a challenge to get the cars to last 8 minutes. You never did warmup laps and your pit guy would take your car to the grid, turn your car on, push the car so you could trim the steering and then turn the car off until just before the start of the race. We also used to use "bump boxes" which where chargers connected to several battery packs that was kept plugged into your car until just before the start of the race. It was all about throttle control.
It was all skill back then even with the war's and such but I never remember such a cool character as Mr. Neisenger Unless you knew who he was, or watched how he drove, most would have never known he was the best in 12th history cause he was such a regular, down to earth guy with the best skills and attitude I ever saw in 12th scale

One of the greatest races ever where the other A-main racers actually pulled off the track during the main to watch Tony and Masami race
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DJGonzo69 View Post
]
Can't beleive we actually use those parachute pants...hahahaha!!
Those aren't parachute pants, parachute pants went out of style in 1985.

Those are Zubaz pants.



What up, bro?
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:41 AM   #24
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A couple of things for everyone to consider regarding the speed.
1. The batteries then, if I remember correctly, were Panasonic P170s, 1700mah.
Most peoples Tx packs have more run-time than what was available then.
2. Most racers were probably running 18-20 turn motors.
3. There was no way in the World that normal people could get equipment comparable to what was run by those racers.
Now days everyone can buy the "best stuff" from any hobby shop and be competitive at the WCs. If they have the skill.
4. The cars were almost 200 grams heavier than what we have now.

After watching the 12th mod cars at Snowbirds I am convinced that 12th scale was much more rewarding "back in the day". The cars are so flipping fast and no one has to even think about dumping, the skill set required to run 12th is much different. Now you simply pull the trigger and hang on, emphasis on hang on! I'm not denying the talent that it takes to get a 12th car around now days but just stating it requires a different type of skill.

While I think lipo and brushless has made general RC racing much better for the masses it has also ruined some areas of racing, with 12th scale and possibly to some degree oval being less fun because of the endless run-time.

Also the type of back and forth action you can see in the video just isn't possible with the cars today due to the speed. It seems to me that today if you don't have a 2 foot "bubble" of free space around your car there is going to be a crash. Things are just happening too fast for even the "best reflexes in the business" to be able to keep up for an entire race distance.

I'm sure others will have differing opinions on this but I have watched and participated in 12th scale racing for 24 years, yes I'm getting really old, and just wanted to give some observations on what I have been seeing happen over the last few years. It just takes looking at old videos to really drive home the point.

I'm now going to go grab a fire extinguisher and wait.

Long live 12th scale.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:30 AM   #25
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Woohaaa....1992....I didn't had met my wife then. 20yrs it has gone too fast.
I remember I was racing 1/10 nitro (Serpent Impact with .15 Irvin engine) along my electric cars. Great vid footage.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:37 AM   #26
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Very well said Sean. I do like the fact that the playing field has leveled with lipos and brushless. The chassis have come a long way since then and are better able to handle the horsepower, like you said ------ just a different game now.


That race was great, the track was big, something like 120' by 55'. Came close to filling the basketball court, couldn't see the car the whole time because of the high track barriers. Race management was awesome, 1992 and they had lap time printouts with you car after tech. You were able to stand above and behind the drivers stand and watching Masami work the sticks was jaw dropping........no centering spring on his steering. Could go on and on........great times.

Long Live 12th Scale.........I like it
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:00 AM   #27
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+1

I think Sean is dead on in his post.

But, I would have loved lipo's and brushless back in the day.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #28
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Can you imagine Scotty calling that race ?!
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Troy Mckune View Post
Wow! Look at little Blackstock. What is amazing is this is 6 cell 1/12th scale mod and the cars are slow. I bet you 13.5 boosted would crush them.

Troy
On the straight for sure. But no way the cars would be able to hook up the power.

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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
They look slow and look like they have less grip than a rubber TC, it was a nice battle, but no amain today is anywhere near that spread out. The guys who are really fast today should be given a lot of credit for how much harder it is now.

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Originally Posted by Crashby View Post
One of the things you have to remember is that you could not pull the trigger all the way until maybe the last 3 to 2.5 minutes and you could only do that if you had unobtainable batteries. You can see moments during the race when Masami or Tony would pull the trigger and the cars would go a lot faster. It was a challenge to get the cars to last 8 minutes. You never did warmup laps and your pit guy would take your car to the grid, turn your car on, push the car so you could trim the steering and then turn the car off until just before the start of the race. We also used to use "bump boxes" which where chargers connected to several battery packs that was kept plugged into your car until just before the start of the race. It was all about throttle control.
It is a different challenge now than it was back then and earlier. Making your batteries last was a large part of the challenge which no longer exists. Something as simple as a crash where you would have to start from a dead stop made you question whether or not you would dump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
A couple of things for everyone to consider regarding the speed.
1. The batteries then, if I remember correctly, were Panasonic P170s, 1700mah.
Most peoples Tx packs have more run-time than what was available then.
2. Most racers were probably running 18-20 turn motors.
3. There was no way in the World that normal people could get equipment comparable to what was run by those racers.
Now days everyone can buy the "best stuff" from any hobby shop and be competitive at the WCs. If they have the skill.
4. The cars were almost 200 grams heavier than what we have now.

After watching the 12th mod cars at Snowbirds I am convinced that 12th scale was much more rewarding "back in the day". The cars are so flipping fast and no one has to even think about dumping, the skill set required to run 12th is much different. Now you simply pull the trigger and hang on, emphasis on hang on! I'm not denying the talent that it takes to get a 12th car around now days but just stating it requires a different type of skill.

While I think lipo and brushless has made general RC racing much better for the masses it has also ruined some areas of racing, with 12th scale and possibly to some degree oval being less fun because of the endless run-time.

Also the type of back and forth action you can see in the video just isn't possible with the cars today due to the speed. It seems to me that today if you don't have a 2 foot "bubble" of free space around your car there is going to be a crash. Things are just happening too fast for even the "best reflexes in the business" to be able to keep up for an entire race distance.

I'm sure others will have differing opinions on this but I have watched and participated in 12th scale racing for 24 years, yes I'm getting really old, and just wanted to give some observations on what I have been seeing happen over the last few years. It just takes looking at old videos to really drive home the point.

I'm now going to go grab a fire extinguisher and wait.

Long live 12th scale.
+1

Another thing to consider is that 1/12 was much more competitive during this period. It was a class that on-road drivers raced on a weekly basis. Now it can be considered a second class for many that is raced only at the big races.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
A couple of things for everyone to consider regarding the speed.
1. The batteries then, if I remember correctly, were Panasonic P170s, 1700mah.
Most peoples Tx packs have more run-time than what was available then.
2. Most racers were probably running 18-20 turn motors.
3. There was no way in the World that normal people could get equipment comparable to what was run by those racers.
Now days everyone can buy the "best stuff" from any hobby shop and be competitive at the WCs. If they have the skill.
4. The cars were almost 200 grams heavier than what we have now.

After watching the 12th mod cars at Snowbirds I am convinced that 12th scale was much more rewarding "back in the day". The cars are so flipping fast and no one has to even think about dumping, the skill set required to run 12th is much different. Now you simply pull the trigger and hang on, emphasis on hang on! I'm not denying the talent that it takes to get a 12th car around now days but just stating it requires a different type of skill.

While I think lipo and brushless has made general RC racing much better for the masses it has also ruined some areas of racing, with 12th scale and possibly to some degree oval being less fun because of the endless run-time.

Also the type of back and forth action you can see in the video just isn't possible with the cars today due to the speed. It seems to me that today if you don't have a 2 foot "bubble" of free space around your car there is going to be a crash. Things are just happening too fast for even the "best reflexes in the business" to be able to keep up for an entire race distance.

I'm sure others will have differing opinions on this but I have watched and participated in 12th scale racing for 24 years, yes I'm getting really old, and just wanted to give some observations on what I have been seeing happen over the last few years. It just takes looking at old videos to really drive home the point.

I'm now going to go grab a fire extinguisher and wait.

Long live 12th scale.
What is really interesting is when 4-cell took over from 6-cell. I remember racing at a very small carpet track in south San Francisco and we we're blowing away the 6-cell guys...lol

Was it a final step up in batteries that led into 4-cell becoming the norm?

And I forget what motors Kev and Rick we're running? I know in 6-cell we we're running 15 quads around 92-93 but maybe your right, they might have been running 19 double or something. I'll ask Kevin
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