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Old 02-07-2012, 05:59 AM   #16
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... At the same time though, I'm running unboosted 17.5 in it on 2S LiPo and the big head-scratcher for everyone, RTR-type block tread tires. Those two severe limitations alone have generated some great, challenging racing against every chassis on the market. ...
.... and everybody's asking "how can we tighten up the field?" But every time I raise my hand, people call me crazy for suggesting the Stock/17.5 class switch up to the low-grip tires. ...
there was a thread about wether SC should be invited to IFMAR as an exp. class, and I was at the point to end my own post with the phrase: "but please do not run those races on blue-groove nor on clay." didn't do it, I thought that would be just too harsh and blow up the thread.

now I see there are also others that do think like that too. well ok, chunky tires are on the other side of the river but the river is still the same
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:07 AM   #17
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Core racing, LEAVE IT to entry level.!!!!? Some one is sniffing to much CA.
Thanx to Traxxas it has brought in more new racers and made it affordable to bring the kidz out than any other class in the history of racing. Where do they go when they are ready to advance? What if the passion is Racing a short coarse but all you are left as an option is sand bagging a "enrty" level class.
GIVE ME A BREAK! On road cut its own throat buy not getting the kidz to the track.

This pic is worth a 1000 words. I don't run nor have I ever even driven a short coarse kit. I think some one is just jealous.

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Old 02-07-2012, 10:42 AM   #18
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Seasoned Mod racers are going to race regardless. IMO it's up to each track owner, regardless of what class it is, to find a way to draw new people and those who don't want to spend thousands of dollars on equipment to the track. If one track gets a bigger crowd with boosted 17.5's and open tires and another does well with no boost and crap..I mean stock tires, that's great and I don't care as long as the track owner is doing what he needs to get the biggest crowd. It's better for him and it means all of us mod racers will have a track.

flames and neon..who cares, if little Johny wants that on his stock SCT who are we to tell him "No, this is a scale class and you can't have that"?
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #19
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I like the idea of running block or stock tires. Would racers go for it?
I ran the stock block tires at my track in the slash spec class and they worked very well.

I dought if the color of the SC truck will contribute to the demise of the classs. It may not be attractive to beginners. As what has occured in Oval and Touring cars. they are pretty much gone. The "Day Glow Mice" was what a spectator at a local mini race described what the field looks like. I thought that was amusing but very descriptive. Ever see the tv adv. when the kid ask of the moped was fast? Well it has flames. Too funny.
I hate flames and neo window frames.

I think that there is no answer to the question of, how do we prevent the demise of a popular for class.

Race tracks can offer a scale beginner class. this has been offered, gone.
standard size wheels impossible, 12, 13, 15, and 17 mm are here.
Who will limit the manufactureres to limit pushing all their resources toward making the class into a specialized highly technical pro class. not me!

Sad to see that the industry does not recognize that they are repeating again what has been done to past popular classes.

If SC goes the way of oval and touring. Shucks!.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:42 PM   #20
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We too tried a spec slash class. It lived through 2 or 3 race days. Once people saw how much better a truck can handle with just a tire upgrade... it was curtains for the spec class. Add onto that the relatively short life span of a brushed Titan, and the inefficiency; makes brushless all the more appealing.

Our 13.5 SCT class is still the biggest, most popular class at our track. Other than the motor, we limit only to SCT style wheels/tires(any tread pattern) Body must be SCT and Chassis must be SCT. That's it, nice and simple.(timing is optional, but our track is tight and technical, so lots of speed does NOT help you) The class is big enough to where the beginners are in the D main, next best are C, then B and so on all the way to the A. These rules work so well, that the other tracks within a couple hours driving distance have all adopted our rules.

This equation works perfectly at our track. The rest of the classes are Short Course Buggy(spec tire Losi Eclipse and open motor; which makes tires last for several race days) Mod buggy, 4WD 10th scale buggy, E 8th scale, and sometimes E truggy. Those are all happiest on a groomed high bite track, so that's how we keep it. SCT came later, so we're not gonna create the loose dirt track just for one class.

It makes the most sense for the local race director to choose what best serves his track. If deep sand or loose dirt works for you, go for it. But to blame the high bite tracks and race bred tires for the demise of a class on a nationwide scale, just doesn't hold water. If ALL tracks and race communities were the same, you might have a point... they simply aren't.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:09 PM   #21
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It makes the most sense for the local race director to choose what best serves his track. If deep sand or loose dirt works for you, go for it. But to blame the high bite tracks and race bred tires for the demise of a class on a nationwide scale, just doesn't hold water. If ALL tracks and race communities were the same, you might have a point... they simply aren't.
I am thrilled that your track has worked it out so that everthing is undercontrol and fun. I guess we are lucky just to have track out here. You can make more money building a parkingj lot @ $20/hr.

My thoughts re the demise of a popular class is also reflected that of Joel Johnson former world champion and Kendall Bennett CEO of A Main Hobbies. Both wrote a editorial regard this subject in the Jan issue of Short Course and both know the industry better than you or I.

I merely have experience with the touring class. It became so specialized that the set of on road tires were only good for one run. On my last touring car race, I bought the latest car, batteries, and several sets of tires and rims and glued them up. I was ready, or so I though, the temp dropped from around 100 degrees the first day to below 70 on the last day. everyone was running no inserts. I ended up in last place with an undriveable car. That was it, it was becoming too technical (expesive).I spent over $150 on the tires/rims and they were all throw aways.

I have not experienced throw away tires in Off Road, but have heard of them.

This very point was spoken about by Kendall in his editorial. I agree with both Joel and Kendall, that the cost of tires can have an impact on the demise of a racing class. I disagree with your above argument. It is true things are thriving for now and for probably will for the distant future. What they are saying is lets not repeat what has been done in the past. Of course no one wants to stop upgrading.

Joel wrote about keeping the realism, I agree and also still hate neon window frames on rc cars. Flames too, seen those too much! Heck even #25 doesnt rock flames anymore. But he's a SoCal boy, you know how trends are out here!
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #22
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I like the idea of running block or stock tires. Would racers go for it?
I ran the stock block tires at my track in the slash spec class and they worked very well.
Novak 17.5SS Unboosted
40C 2S1P 5000mAh LiPo
HPI Maxxis Trepadors (belted D compound)

Yes, this is a 2WD truck.

\/ Click for video \/
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:44 PM   #23
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Cool video, but it is hard to judge speed when the whole thing is slow motion.

Trying to look at the dirt and being an avid motocross guy, it looks like the frame rate was slowed about in half so not sure why the comment on it being a 2wd truck. Looks like any stock 2wd truck on a dry track to me.

Is there a way to play it at real speed?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:22 AM   #24
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I have not experienced throw away tires in Off Road, but have heard of them.
Well I guess the JC Pressure Points are the first of them and others will follow...
if they can sell them, they will. It's up to us, wether we jump on the bandwagon or not.
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Old 02-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #25
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I merely have experience with the touring class. It became so specialized that the set of on road tires were only good for one run. On my last touring car race, I bought the latest car, batteries, and several sets of tires and rims and glued them up. I was ready, or so I though, the temp dropped from around 100 degrees the first day to below 70 on the last day. everyone was running no inserts. I ended up in last place with an undriveable car. That was it, it was becoming too technical (expesive).I spent over $150 on the tires/rims and they were all throw aways.
Any form of racing can become frustrating and expensive if not followed the right way.

A smaller track can sometimes make the competition better, overtaking becomes more frequent.

The people you hang out with when racing makes a difference too. If no one was willing to share setup info, you can struggle.

I have been to tracks where you feel like an outsider too, it does nothing to make you want to come back. Find a new track to race at

All i'm saying is, look at the bigger picture. It's not all bad.

We all have r/c related issues. its "how" you figure them out that matters, or first of all if you have the desire to....
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Old 02-08-2012, 07:02 AM   #26
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Any form of racing can become frustrating and expensive if not followed the right way.

A smaller track can sometimes make the competition better, overtaking becomes more frequent.

The people you hang out with when racing makes a difference too. If no one was willing to share setup info, you can struggle.

I have been to tracks where you feel like an outsider too, it does nothing to make you want to come back. Find a new track to race at

All i'm saying is, look at the bigger picture. It's not all bad.

We all have r/c related issues. its "how" you figure them out that matters, or first of all if you have the desire to....

+1

I race carpet off road but have raced indoor dirt a few times, it seemed that any set up tips were top secret and I remember everytime id lose control on the unfamiliar surface and bump somebody just about everybody on the drivers stand would start running there mouth.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:22 AM   #27
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Cool video, but it is hard to judge speed when the whole thing is slow motion.

Trying to look at the dirt and being an avid motocross guy, it looks like the frame rate was slowed about in half so not sure why the comment on it being a 2wd truck. Looks like any stock 2wd truck on a dry track to me.

Is there a way to play it at real speed?
It's running at 1/4 speed, actually. Full speed, those shots go by so fast you can't even see what the truck's doing. Other people I've shown it to just can't get over that it's a 2WD on stock Blitz tires and it's that controllable. I think a lot of people's opinions on block tread tires comes from the early days of Short Course when the stock Slash tire was all there was, and in my experience they really aren't that good a dirt tire (blue groove clay and carpet though, they work surprisingly well). The block treads that've come since are a LOT better on dirt than the original Slash tire was (my two favorites right now are the Maxxis Trepadors and Pro-Line's Trenchers), and you still have to drive it like a real dirt car with the tail end out.

I just wanted to show people that with a little time, effort, and practice, it's really not that hard to be consistent on a block tread tire.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #28
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almost every new class starts out just like sc trucks did, then the racers in those stock/spec classes get better and want more.

what they need to do is design something like a legends car but for off road, something that's very difficult to mod/improve but at the same time is a blast to race.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:50 PM   #29
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almost every new class starts out just like sc trucks did, then the racers in those stock/spec classes get better and want more.

what they need to do is design something like a legends car but for off road, something that's very difficult to mod/improve but at the same time is a blast to race.
The tamiya TCS races require scale bodies. competition and speeds is hight at these events. Also th ere are several classes with low to higher skill and speed levels. I just don't want to see SC go the way of touring cars with generic blob bodies. Pro Line already has on unrealistic looking rally body tht fits SC chassis. It looks areo and cool but...

Its really up to the race directors to control the legality of a class. I could use cheater motors, batteries/bodies but what fun is that? By the time I quit touring car I pretty much was burnt out on the whole scene.

I have other passions, Mt biking and road biking so it easy for me to take a break from rc. Its nice to mix it up. Now I'm not riding to much but am building a highly modded Slash 4x4, the body is realistically beat up and held together with Shoe Goe patches. New chassis/ motor/esc/body coming.
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Old 02-08-2012, 03:38 PM   #30
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Racers want performance. You can't tell the tread pattern on the tires when they are spinning. Want tires that last and still work pretty well?; get the Losi Eclipses.

If there were no flames or day glow mice bodies on the track, you'll have a hard time distinguishing your truck from a sea of "Scale" bodies. There aren't a ton of paint schemes available, so you may or may not end up with several of the same exact body in a race. When the SC10 and Slash were all that was available, it was tough at times. People (mostly noobs that got on the SCT bandwagon) would often wreck because they were driving the wrong truck... even I did it once!

VTA hasn't brought On Road back, suffocating rules won't preserve SCT. Its up to the local RD to decide what's best at his track. While I'm sure industry insiders know things I don't, I've been racing long enough to know that what I'm saying is accurate. I respectfully disagree with Joel Johnson former world champion and Kendall Bennett CEO of A Main Hobbies.
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