Motor Oil?

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Old 09-29-2010, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Please read my postings before replying. Kthnxbye.

Nowhere in that post do I say a 99 cent FILTER.
oh i read your post...i just don't see that a guy who spends 99 cents a quart of oil is going to spend the money for a quality filter. i don't mean to be offensive....just sayin..
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:06 AM
  #32  
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I always felt if you change the oil every 3 grand with $.99 oil you will get the same performance as a synthetic oil .



The biggest advantage synthetic's offer is they last longer or more miles compared to conventional lubricates .

Not their ability to insure longer engine life.....


So if your motor burns a quart every 3,000 miles , a inexpensive oil's is a great choice penny wise .....
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
I always felt if you change the oil every 3 grand with $.99 oil you will get the same performance as a synthetic oil .



The biggest advantage synthetic's offer is they last longer or more miles compared to conventional lubricates .

Not their ability to insure longer engine life.....


So if your motor burns a quart every 3,000 miles , a inexpensive oil's is a great choice penny wise .....
Nope..the biggest advantage of a synthetic oil is has better protection on start up, so it will make your motor last longer, that's theoretically anyways.

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Old 09-30-2010, 08:55 AM
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From what I see, lubrication related failures within the normal lifetime of a passenger car are pretty rare these days. Even among cars that do NOT get routine maintenance. Oil, bearing and engine design have come a LONG way. These days, it's cooling system failures, electronic failures, etc. that bring them to a stop, not spun bearings or camshaft failures.

So, any .99 cent oil that carries the latest API rating should do just fine. I still prefer a name brand oil myself but wouldn't panic if I had to use something else.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
Nope..the biggest advantage of a synthetic oil is has better protection on start up, so it will make your motor last longer, that's theoretically anyways.
Myth. Maybe on a SCB it may offer a SLIGHT edge to protection. Modern cars running a 5W oil and high-volume oil pumps see oil reach the top end within 3 seconds of startup. More wear is present on the top end than the bottom end as oil is forced through the crank and mains first. Plus, most engine designs now allow for oil to be retained in the cam journals to prevent dry starts.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:06 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by x60Driver View Post
Teg? Intregera?
Yep, 2000 Integra GSR.

I semi agree about the synthetic oil myth but that is why I run the Lucas stabilizer, it makes the oil stay up in the head better and it can really quite down loud valve trains.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Myth. Maybe on a SCB it may offer a SLIGHT edge to protection. Modern cars running a 5W oil and high-volume oil pumps see oil reach the top end within 3 seconds of startup. More wear is present on the top end than the bottom end as oil is forced through the crank and mains first. Plus, most engine designs now allow for oil to be retained in the cam journals to prevent dry starts.
Synthetic oils offer no better protection for "Start-ups" than conventional oil. (until you look a little closer) The key to keeping wear to a minimum during startups, is to run the lowest SAE viscocity oil you can find. For example, if your car calls for 5-30, there is absolutly no reason you should run 5-30 when you can buy a 0-30, because even at 0 SAE (let alone 5), there is a delay on how long it takes for the oil to reach the critical pieces of the topend. The easier it is for the oil to spread on startup, the better for the engine. If they made a -20 30 oil, id be running that.

Also, tests show that a 0-30 synthetic can flow up to 7 times better than a 5-30 conventional oil can... which I guess in turn, CAN give initial start up wear an incredible edge to synths over convs.

The advantage to Synthetic, is that the lubricating properties of the oil don't break down like a conventional oil does. Most tests show that even by 3k miles, conventional oil has already started to break down and its lubricating properties have started to deterierate. A snythetic oil can retain its lubricating properties well beyond 10k miles, even if dirty.

Storydude, you are right that changing the oil before it breaks down and before it gets dirty is the most important thing, but even if you put a 3,000 mile conventional oil change, analyised against a 3,000 mile synth oil change, head to head, you would see more wear with a conventional oil than with a synth.

Also, it greatly depends on the application. On a high pressure turbo application, where the turbo system is cooled and lubricated by the engine oil, a set of bearings that spin at what, 50k rpms? Run and wear MUCH better with a synthetic oil than a conventional. With the cost difference being almost nil over the life of the car, running synthetic is a win-win no matter how you measure it.

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Old 09-30-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Myth. Maybe on a SCB it may offer a SLIGHT edge to protection. Modern cars running a 5W oil and high-volume oil pumps see oil reach the top end within 3 seconds of startup. More wear is present on the top end than the bottom end as oil is forced through the crank and mains first. Plus, most engine designs now allow for oil to be retained in the cam journals to prevent dry starts.
For one I never said top end or bottom end, two, what I'm saying is NOT what I think, it's fact, you can look it up..the link has been posted in this thread, if you want to use cheap oil fine with me..it makes no difference to me, I know that you just like to give me sh*t and I don't care about that either because your just being a douche..
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:42 AM
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Engine wear has to due with materials and quality of the engine manufacturing process.

If your engine prematurely wears out to where you spin a bearing, or fail emissions to oil burning, or oil foul plugs, then your engine was made with low quality materials or bad tolerances, or crappy assembly.

Your engine is designed to wear out, no motor oil is going change the design of planned obsoletion.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Synthetic oils offer no better protection for "Start-ups" than conventional oil. (until you look a little closer) The key to keeping wear to a minimum during startups, is to run the lowest SAE viscocity oil you can find. For example, if your car calls for 5-30, there is absolutly no reason you should run 5-30 when you can buy a 0-30, because even at 0 SAE (let alone 5), there is a delay on how long it takes for the oil to reach the critical pieces of the topend. The easier it is for the oil to spread on startup, the better for the engine. If they made a -20 30 oil, id be running that.

Also, tests show that a 0-30 synthetic can flow up to 7 times better than a 5-30 conventional oil can... which I guess in turn, CAN give initial start up wear an incredible edge to synths over convs.

The advantage to Synthetic, is that the lubricating properties of the oil don't break down like a conventional oil does. Most tests show that even by 3k miles, conventional oil has already started to break down and its lubricating properties have started to deterierate. A snythetic oil can retain its lubricating properties well beyond 10k miles, even if dirty.

Storydude, you are right that changing the oil before it breaks down and before it gets dirty is the most important thing, but even if you put a 3,000 mile conventional oil change, analyised against a 3,000 mile synth oil change, head to head, you would see more wear with a conventional oil than with a synth.

Also, it greatly depends on the application. On a high pressure turbo application, where the turbo system is cooled and lubricated by the engine oil, a set of bearings that spin at what, 50k rpms? Run and wear MUCH better with a synthetic oil than a conventional. With the cost difference being almost nil over the life of the car, running synthetic is a win-win no matter how you measure it.
Do the math. assume a 150K lifespan(short, but just a number), that's 50 oil changes in that motor's life. Oil cost @ 99 cents a quart, 5 QtsX50= 247.50
Synthetic oil cost @ 5.00/qt=1250.00. Cost of engine rebuild hovers around 1000-1200 bucks including R/R labor. run cheap oil and pay the same amount as running synthetic oils over that 150K lifespan AND get a rebuild, or pay 1200 bucks and pay the same 1200 for a rebuild.

Your choice.

Oh and the problems with turbos coking bearings has nothing to do with the properties of the oil, but all to do with the way that engine is run and more importantly, how long of a cool-down the turbo sees before oil stops flowing.

Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
For one I never said top end or bottom end, two, what I'm saying is NOT what I think, it's fact, you can look it up..the link has been posted in this thread, if you want to use cheap oil fine with me..it makes no difference to me, I know that you just like to give me sh*t and I don't care about that either because your just being a douche..
Who? Bob the Oil Guy? See who pays his bills then come talk to me. Not trying to give you shit, but with your professed profession, in possession of what you posted, makes ALL LEGAL firearms owners look bad. Just wait. I'm sure one day DEA and ATF will come to raid your little hippy plantation and you'll get a first hand look at Project Exile.

Not to change the topic, but if I ran a medical pot warehouse, I don't think I'd own illegal firearms.
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:17 AM
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story1dude.. put this one to rest I only sell my product to clinics I don't sell on the streets, I don't sell to anybody, I provide a service that's all I do, in my eyes it's no worse than what you're doing, selling guns and ammunition to whomever qualifies, My product is to help not harm, I make over 100K a year and I pay taxes on it.
Now on to the oil's..you will believe what you want to believe, theirs proof out their to back up what I say, and theirs also proof that your motor makes more HP on synthetic (it also works on running thinner oil..but not as big of gains) and synthetics work way better in colder temps during start ups also.
[But claims and talk are cheap, so Car Craft had Westech Performance run some of the new Mobil 1 0W-30 in Ford's prototype 392 small-block stroker crate engine. The Mobil 1 was compared to the generic (and recommended for this engine) 20W-50 factory-fill conventional oil, as well as 10W-30 conventional oil. All tests began with the oil temperature stabilized at 210 degrees F. The engine ran from 3,300-6,200 rpm, and several runs were made for each oil to ensure repeatability.

In terms of peak numbers, we found that the engine gained nearly 7 hp with the thinner conventional oil, and was up nearly 10 hp with the synthetic. No peak torque gains were observed by changing from 20W-50 to 10W-30 conventional; however, the synthetic was up 15 lb-ft of torque at the peak. Looking at average numbers helps explain where the gains occurred--both the thinner conventional and synthetic oils broadened the torque and power bands overall, but the thin Mobil 1 showed the greatest improvement under 4,700 rpm, indicating that the thinner oil provides less initial drag for the engine to overcome.]
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Old 09-30-2010, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Do the math. assume a 150K lifespan(short, but just a number), that's 50 oil changes in that motor's life. Oil cost @ 99 cents a quart, 5 QtsX50= 247.50
Synthetic oil cost @ 5.00/qt=1250.00. Cost of engine rebuild hovers around 1000-1200 bucks including R/R labor. run cheap oil and pay the same amount as running synthetic oils over that 150K lifespan AND get a rebuild, or pay 1200 bucks and pay the same 1200 for a rebuild.

Your choice.
Well sure, but you aren't adding up all the math, only the math that trys to make your point. 1, how much is your own time dealing with the hassle and beign without a car worth?. 2, maybe your 1998 toyota corolla engine rebuild only costs that much, but a new engine or pre-worn turbo in my STI costs considerably more. Add in the countless hours of hassle of having to go through a rebuild and being without your car, ultimately, is worth a lot more.

Not only that.. but how about driving around in a car with a mostly worn engine for X amount of its life until it reaches 150k? talk about short sighted, man! some of us care more about our cars than you do, obviously.

Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Oh and the problems with turbos coking bearings has nothing to do with the properties of the oil, but all to do with the way that engine is run and more importantly, how long of a cool-down the turbo sees before oil stops flowing.
nah nah.. it also has a LOT to do with how quickly oil is able to get to the turbo system. As I said before, a synth 0-30 can flow up to 7 times easier than 5-30 conventional... on a cold startup, that means oil to the turbo MUCH faster.

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Old 09-30-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Oasis View Post
story1dude.. put this one to rest I only sell my product to clinics I don't sell on the streets, I don't sell to anybody, I provide a service that's all I do, in my eyes it's no worse than what you're doing, selling guns and ammunition to whomever qualifies, My product is to help not harm, I make over 100K a year and I pay taxes on it.
Sure thing there Nino. Instead of street level, you are distributor level. And by your own admission, not only are you profiting off of misery, you are directly helping the drug cartels that have declared War against the USA. Because I know you are not using a domestic source for your pot. Your postings of the past few days confirms that. Your knowledge of what the mexican cartels are selling bales fo confirms that point. Did Jose' hook you up with that select fire firearm?

Now on to the oil's..you will believe what you want to believe, theirs proof out their to back up what I say, and theirs also proof that your motor makes more HP on synthetic (it also works on running thinner oil..but not as big of gains) and synthetics work way better in colder temps during start ups also.
[But claims and talk are cheap, so Car Craft had Westech Performance run some of the new Mobil 1 0W-30 in Ford's prototype 392 small-block stroker crate engine. The Mobil 1 was compared to the generic (and recommended for this engine) 20W-50 factory-fill conventional oil, as well as 10W-30 conventional oil. All tests began with the oil temperature stabilized at 210 degrees F. The engine ran from 3,300-6,200 rpm, and several runs were made for each oil to ensure repeatability.

In terms of peak numbers, we found that the engine gained nearly 7 hp with the thinner conventional oil, and was up nearly 10 hp with the synthetic. No peak torque gains were observed by changing from 20W-50 to 10W-30 conventional; however, the synthetic was up 15 lb-ft of torque at the peak. Looking at average numbers helps explain where the gains occurred--both the thinner conventional and synthetic oils broadened the torque and power bands overall, but the thin Mobil 1 showed the greatest improvement under 4,700 rpm, indicating that the thinner oil provides less initial drag for the engine to overcome.]
HP increases relate to wear on the engine how again? Wear/Friction/Viscosity and drag are all interrelated. Reduce viscosity, internal drag reduces but wear increases. Increase viscosity, internal drag goes up, but wear goes down. If synthetic offered the best performance and engine life, wouldn't these manufactures offering 100K mile warranties MANDATE it? I mean, the proof is right there...Or so you say.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
Well sure, but you aren't adding up all the math, only the math that trys to make your point. 1, how much is your own time dealing with the hassle and beign without a car worth?. 2, maybe your 1998 toyota corolla engine rebuild only costs that much, but a new engine or pre-worn turbo in my STI costs considerably more. Add in the countless hours of hassle of having to go through a rebuild and being without your car, ultimately, is worth a lot more.
Split case Subaru? I can rebuild one of those in less than 8 hours of book time...Or one day. For under 1000.00 with new jugs. A NEW crate SBC from Jasper is 699.99. I helped sponsor a suby rally team. I know EXACTLY what it costs to rebuild one.

Not only that.. but how about driving around in a car with a mostly worn engine for X amount of its life until it reaches 150k? talk about short sighted, man! some of us care more about our cars than you do, obviously.
95% of engine wear is produced in the FIRST 5 min. that the automaker fires up that engine. Which means most of the damage done to a motor takes place before you even sign the sales slip.

nah nah.. it also has a LOT to do with how quickly oil is able to get to the turbo system. As I said before, a synth 0-30 can flow up to 7 times easier than 5-30 conventional... on a cold startup, that means oil to the turbo MUCH faster.
Too bad turbos are plumbed in before the mains in a suby. Meaning the turbo sees oil before the mains. Try again.

Again, you want to toss money on a perceived "advantage" knock yourself out. I prefer to listen to the chemical engineers and real-world experiences. Oh and one more thing? Syn oils can contain up to 50% petroleum products and still be called "synthetic"
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Storydude1 View Post
Sure thing there Nino. Instead of street level, you are distributor level. And by your own admission, not only are you profiting off of misery, you are directly helping the drug cartels that have declared War against the USA. Because I know you are not using a domestic source for your pot. Your postings of the past few days confirms that. Your knowledge of what the mexican cartels are selling bales fo confirms that point. Did Jose' hook you up with that select fire.
Whoa their RACIST..I think you need to back the F off the "Jose" remarks, I think that you don't pay attention, I grow my "product" under the California Sun, I use NO chemicals, no plant hormones, I only sell my "product" to medical dispensaries (LEGAL in Ca.). I provide a service that helps people who have pain issues..I feel that the service I provide keeps people from having to buy illegal drugs..this IS the reason why Ca. voters voted yes to the medical marijuana, but I guess it's ok for you to sell a product that's main puporse is to kill..nice..
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