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Old 05-01-2008, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
ask andretti how he liked the ground effects and slicks. pre-wings.. been there, done that and we're going back that direction by the rules. thats what half of the testing at barcelona was. slicks and 30% less downforce. in time..

go search youtube for all that.. got some good videos.
I guess we could ask Bourdais (another of the incredibly over-rated and under-talented CART champs) how he likes the current rules. I mean if we're looking for the opinions of the inept, why not start there?

Cart cars had slicks, and tons of downforce, and they made Michael Andretti and Bourdais look good. Of course with all the downforce and slicks they couldn't make a pass in CART without ramming someone else either....

There's only one great Andretti, and that's Mario. Michael never proved to be anything more than someone who could meltdown a potential Indy winner.
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:46 AM
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CMW, i was referring to mario since he's the only andretti to compete in f1 that i'm aware of. =)
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Old 05-01-2008, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
CMW, i was referring to mario since he's the only andretti to compete in f1 that i'm aware of. =)
Michael did 1 season in F1 (95?) and basically got screwed! While his teammate was working on race setups Michael was still trying to figure out if the next turn was a right or a left. Absolutely no help from anyone. He was on the podium in his last race.

His teammate was some guy who was never heard from again, Mika somethingorother.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mason View Post
ask andretti how he liked the ground effects and slicks. pre-wings.. been there, done that and we're going back that direction by the rules. thats what half of the testing at barcelona was. slicks and 30% less downforce. in time..

go search youtube for all that.. got some good videos.
I'm aware of the current testing with slicks, my comments more focused on the down force created by using ground effects. Current rules, and future ones to my current knowledge, don't and won't allow teams to take full advantage of the down force avaliable from this. And from what i was hearing it though it was quite a bit more than 30% down force, could be wrong? I'm not saying we should have super high down force so anyone who has a good lines and poor driver control can look amazing, I'm just saying we need down force created by something that is not affected so much in the draft. Hopefully full slicks should take care of rear tire ware issues teams have been having, but i think it kinda adds a fun new strategy. But i think multiple compounds that teams can pick from on their own is a better variable that goes into the racing.

Also I've been meaning to ask, did the FIA decide how long they will be using these v8 power plants. I heard rumors that it could be quite a while, i guess on the positive side of things this gives teams more time and energy to develop badass KERS devices. although turbo biofuel cars would be fun to.
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Old 05-01-2008, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by raceGEEK View Post
I'm just saying we need down force created by something that is not affected so much in the draft.
Unfortunately, the more aero the cars become the MORE they become affected by the draft. Just like not getting air onto the front wing makes the current cars push, not getting that same air under the car in the diffusers and tunnels makes the car loose.

And the LAST thing F1 wants, from a safety standpoint, is higher cornering speeds. Downforce has been removed for EXACTLY this reason...higher corner speeds mean higher speed impacts when something goes wrong. Higher speed impacts mean more potential for injury or worse.

There isn't a magic bullet that will make for more passing. Unless we go to completely non-aero including no wings. Lets just ratchet everything back to 1965. No, wait a minute, you STILL only had few cars on the lead lap and the lead car or two had generally broken WAY ahead of the pack. So much for rose-colored glasses...
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Old 05-02-2008, 02:58 AM
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Anyone else think that Barichello and Coulthard will be replaced soon? Both of those guys looked much better in their prime. On their current teams, Button outshines Barichello and Coulthard can't keep up with Webber. Another thing about Coulthard, he blames every other driver for his mishaps; it's become quite annoying!
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:13 AM
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I don't remember Coulthards last good result, his good times have come and gone imho.
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Old 05-02-2008, 07:14 AM
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I don't remember Coulthards last good result, his good times have come and gone imho. A bit like how Eddie Irvine tailed off.....
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:57 PM
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Michael did 1 season in F1 (95?) and basically got screwed! While his teammate was working on race setups Michael was still trying to figure out if the next turn was a right or a left. Absolutely no help from anyone. He was on the podium in his last race.

His teammate was some guy who was never heard from again, Mika somethingorother.

Yes I remember those races...seemed like Michael Andretti's MO was to spin out and wreck on the very first lap.
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Old 05-05-2008, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Michael did 1 season in F1 (95?) and basically got screwed! While his teammate was working on race setups Michael was still trying to figure out if the next turn was a right or a left. Absolutely no help from anyone. He was on the podium in his last race.

His teammate was some guy who was never heard from again, Mika somethingorother.
Mika somethingorother (who had been doing McLaren test driving when Lotus folded tent after the '92 season...bonus points for who can name HIS teammate at Lotus without Google, etc) was who replaced Michael. Micheal's teammate ('93 season btw) was another relative unknown. Ayrton somethingorother.

And yes, Michael kinda took a screwing AND gave himself a screwing. Tried to live in the 'states and race in Europe rather than move there (that was also right around when the homelife with Sandy had started heading sideways). Didn't bond with the team, etc. That was also the first year on narrow tires and McLaren's active suspension was poor poor poor. Add to that it was the first year testing was SEVERELY limited so Michael (who was a "slow learner" in new formula throughout his career according to a conversation I had with Ludwig Heimrath Jr. at the time...who knew him well and had gone through the lower formulae with him). End result, punched out 2/3 through the season to BOTH parties benefit. Too bad.
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:03 PM
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It appears that super aguri will be withdrawing from the 2008 championship, sad news.

http://www.saf1.co.jp/en/topics/2008/nws_080506.html
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:17 AM
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[rant]<sighing>....Super Aguri. Another in a long line of small teams that has failed to hang on in F1. Only difference is that this time it was supposed to be different.

It amazes me that when mad Max rants non-stop about his cost cutting measures, he always manages to leave out two key points.

1. Every team...EVERY ONE(even those who support the cost cutting changes), agrees that each time a new rule is introduced to cut cost, it pretty much doubles their cost at the time just to conform to the new rule. Now mulitply that doubling of cost per rule, by how many cost cutting rules changes we've seen in the past 4 seasons. YIKES!!!

2. Despite all these changes, teams continue to struggle financially or drop out entirely, and it hasn't really done anything to level the playing field. Now the argument could be made that these changes will help future teams, but if your an investor and you continue to see teams fail, how willing will you be to commit to take that risk. And as for leveling the field with these changes, it seems now, as it has always been, that you still need good management, good drivers, and good engineers to do well. These teams that are up and coming in F1 right now aren't doing so because of controled cost or simply outspending everyone else.

I've seen people here support the cost cutting to no end. Even going so far as to compare what F1's cost cutting could achieve, to the success that the NFL has had with its salary cap. I've pretty much given up trying to convince people that the difference between those two sports(and their financial structure) is so large that they might as well be on different planets!

Now, I simply want to know from those people and from mad Max, where are the results? We've been in this cost cutting thing for quite some time now. Yet we are still losing teams, teams that were good, are still good, and teams that were bad, and are now good, didn't get that way because of spending changes. F1 is being changed on a daily basis away from what made it great, and for what? Where are the results?

People seriously want to know why cost cutting will never, ever, EVER, work in F1? Just take a look at the little piece they did on Redbull's exhaust during the last race.

Just on Redbull's exhast system
-6 Full time engineers just for the exhaust system
-2 hand made, hand crafted, custom designed exhaust per car plus spare pieces in case of damage.
-1...yes...ONE...race weekend per set of exhaust, and thats assuming that none get damaged during the race weekend...

Now how much do you think they are spending....just on the exhaust?(including salaries for those 6 'exhaust only' engineers, CAD for the exhaust, custom materials for the exhaust, etc...) And this is from a team who can't even keep their suspension from failing just driving over a curb! So how much do you think the upper level teams, who demand higher quality and more reliability, are spending? And you think the FIA can control that? Happening at every team, spread out across about a dozen countrys. Paaaaleasssseeeeeeee!

Its sad to see Super Aguri go. But honestly, who didn't see this coming the moment the team was formed. We've seen small teams come and go, change ownership, etc... This is nothing new.

The only difference now is that Max has duped people into believing that this time would be different. So again, if his crap is working, where are the results?

[/rant]
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:38 AM
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Super Aguri is the first F-1 team to collapse in close to a decade now. There has NEVER been a period of time even CLOSE to that long without a team closing up shop. Usually more than one per season if one looks back over the history of F-1. Somebody is doing SOMETHING right if your personal measure of success or failure is teams staying open vs shutting down. Now, do I attribute this to cost-containment? Probably not, I think it is more due to the "bonding" requirement FIA require of new teams to show financial integrity. The only "new" teams to show up since have been Toyota and Super Aguri, and the intent was to keep the on-edge financially teams out. Now SA have failed so it's a 50% success.

I'm no great fan of Mosely...I just don't get all irrationally worked up over him. He's been kind of like gravity, he's there whether I want it or not. Sounds like we'll be rid of him soon enough to be replaced with... And do you want to guess what real changes we'll see from his replacement? That's right, pretty much nothing will change.

I thought that exhaust piece was one of the best RPM's they've done yet. The extractor/collector is one of the most highly stressed components in racing, subject to extreme heat and extreme vibration. Integrity of exhaust is why even when 2-stroke GP bikes were the fastest on the planet you never saw them in endurance racing. The motors could be made to run forever, but the exhaust systems would break up. The modern F-1 exhaust system is an engineering and production MARVEL.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:19 PM
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so how about those spec leagues..
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