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GUN CONTROL PARENTING, AND THE VT INCIDENT

GUN CONTROL PARENTING, AND THE VT INCIDENT

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Old 04-19-2007, 05:33 AM
  #46  
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FUJIMO, not sure where you live, but in Texas, it don't even matter if they are in your house. You can shoot an intruder, while protecting your property.
You don't have to be in fear for you life.Our laws were just recently changed.
In the last year,10 or more(we only hear about the one's that died) intruders, were killed by home owners. None of the homeowners,were charged.

Gun control is about as realistic as idiot control.
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Old 04-19-2007, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by scoobydo
Good Points Marcel.

I guess it comes down to personal opinion.
I can respect yours and others as well.

I would much rather have hand guns banned here in California.
Call me naive, call me un-American, call me whatever you wish.
I feel it will make a difference. Maybe not a huge one, but its a start.

My thoughts and prayers to the familes of VT Students/Faculty.

I respect your opinion also but this statement "about banning handguns here in California"....what's that about? Only California? California already has some of the most strict gun laws.....interested why you said California. Do you really think by banning guns you'll be able to rid the streets of ALL guns? Back to DRUNK DRIVING. I don't hear too many people calling for the ban on cars or alcohol!! Way more people die from that than from guns. Let's hear what you have to say on that.
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Old 04-19-2007, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SRAD
I respect your opinion also but this statement "about banning handguns here in California"....what's that about? Only California? California already has some of the most strict gun laws.....interested why you said California. Do you really think by banning guns you'll be able to rid the streets of ALL guns? Back to DRUNK DRIVING. I don't hear too many people calling for the ban on cars or alcohol!! Way more people die from that than from guns. Let's hear what you have to say on that.

IMO if u got money to drink so much uget drunk then u got enough money to CATCH A CAB HOME!
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Old 04-19-2007, 06:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ProudSavageOwnr
i was a student in class
some crazy ass mofo walks in n starts shooting up the place
the only thing i can do is get shot cause the laws dont allow us to handle guns.
33 lifes down.

^^^^is what would happen if gun laws didnt allow people to handle guns....

How about this one

i was a student in class
some crazy ass mofo walks in and sits down
he couldn't buy a gun because there were laws preventing it
No lifes down.


The Facts:
2001 Gun Deaths (couldn't get any recent years facts)
UK - 73
USA - 11,671

UK Population - Around 60 Million
USA Population - Just below 300 Million

So multiply the gun deaths in the UK by 5 and that is 365 Homicide cases if the population was the same as the USA.

How do you explain this?
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:22 AM
  #50  
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How do you explain this?
Culture.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:12 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by SRAD
I respect your opinion also but this statement "about banning handguns here in California"....what's that about? Only California? California already has some of the most strict gun laws.....interested why you said California. Do you really think by banning guns you'll be able to rid the streets of ALL guns? Back to DRUNK DRIVING. I don't hear too many people calling for the ban on cars or alcohol!! Way more people die from that than from guns. Let's hear what you have to say on that.
The reason I said CA is because I live here.
I vote here and can have a say what happens in this State.
I wouldn't be naive to say I want Handguns banned in every state when each one regulates its own laws. Those voters decide.
I think CA will eventually be the first State for this to happen.
Curently their is legislation to do background checks on people buying Ammunition. Unfortunately, this will not happen until 2011.
It wont just be the banning of handguns, several steps need to be taken for things to change.
However, you need to do it one step at a time.
As far as the Drunk Driving thing, its irrelevant.
People HAVE to drive. There is no way around it.
The standard and quality of life depend on it for 99% of Working Americans.
However, I seriously doubt you need a handgun in order to get through your day, unless your job requires it.
We have strict laws for drunk driving. If your caught and don't hurt anyone, it will literally cost you $10K plus when it is all said and done before you can drive again.
I know friends who have literally STOPPED drinking and gone sober after getting a DUI, so I know it works.
I would love to have illegal gun possession charges have a $10K-20K fine attached to them.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:15 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Mi3Racer
How about this one

i was a student in class
some crazy ass mofo walks in and sits down
he couldn't buy a gun because there were laws preventing it
No lifes down.


The Facts:
2001 Gun Deaths (couldn't get any recent years facts)
UK - 73
USA - 11,671

UK Population - Around 60 Million
USA Population - Just below 300 Million

So multiply the gun deaths in the UK by 5 and that is 365 Homicide cases if the population was the same as the USA.

How do you explain this?
How does the UK do it???????
We need to be studying them to see what is working for them.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:30 AM
  #53  
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How does the UK do it???????
We're not Brittish, we're American, huge cultural difference. The Brittish also have a strong public transit system, as does most of Europe. A larger portion of the population doesn't even own cars. Do you think we'd be willing to give up ours? I use that as an example, since you probably own a car, and likely you wouldn't give it up. Your willingness to give up your car is about how willing to give up guns the rest of America is...and gun owners would site similar reasons.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mi3Racer
How about this one

i was a student in class
some crazy ass mofo walks in and sits down
he couldn't buy a gun because there were laws preventing it
No lifes down.


The Facts:
2001 Gun Deaths (couldn't get any recent years facts)
UK - 73
USA - 11,671

UK Population - Around 60 Million
USA Population - Just below 300 Million

So multiply the gun deaths in the UK by 5 and that is 365 Homicide cases if the population was the same as the USA.

How do you explain this?
so what you are trying to say is if cho couldn't have got a gun , none of this would have happened ? you honestly believe that ? HONESTLY !!?? c'mon, look at oklahoma city, not one shot fired and how many died there ? and i know for a fact that there was a bus and train bombing in the u.k. and there wasn't a shot fired there either , but yet how many lives were taken. and when it happens in the u.k. your civilans have the same fear for their lives as we americans do. only difference is, over here we have guns in our homes to protect us from having one of these wack jobs walk right in on us. over there you guys are like grazing sheep. with all do respect mi3racer, what do you have for protection of your wife, if you have one, and family, if you have one ??

maybe that is what i need to be asking. no one on here so far said that they have a carry permit and have a gun to go along with it. i guess i am the only one on here with a permit and gun's and the right the training to use it legally if neccesary .

i am not speaking of just protection at home, and just not mi3racer. i personally have a gun in almost every room of my home ready at any given moment. and where there isn't a gun, i have an axe handle sitting in the corner. one way or the other, if i am broken into and my life , as well as my families, is in danger, you will be dealt with and will not go to jail, just the morgue.


wardo, i can only wish our state laws were as nice as your in texas. i have heard many great things about texas law. i even heard you guys have an open carry law, is that true ? when i carry i do it concealed because that is state law. however, if it was changed to an open carry law, i would still carry concealed in certain areas because it scares some people when they see guns. and those are the ones that think we need to outlaw them and carry mace to protect ourselves from an attack.

proud savage owner, that is it exactly in short.

as much as anyone would like to think guns are not accessible to "anyone" ,they are, therefore any other hypothesis or theory about what could have happened is bologna.

it could have just as easily been anything else. bomb, car, plane, sword, poison gas , anthrax, and the list continues. continues away from guns !!

Marcel
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by scoobydo
The reason I said CA is because I live here.
I vote here and can have a say what happens in this State.
I wouldn't be naive to say I want Handguns banned in every state when each one regulates its own laws. Those voters decide.
I think CA will eventually be the first State for this to happen.
Curently their is legislation to do background checks on people buying Ammunition. Unfortunately, this will not happen until 2011.
It wont just be the banning of handguns, several steps need to be taken for things to change.
However, you need to do it one step at a time.
As far as the Drunk Driving thing, its irrelevant.
People HAVE to drive. There is no way around it.
The standard and quality of life depend on it for 99% of Working Americans.
However, I seriously doubt you need a handgun in order to get through your day, unless your job requires it.
We have strict laws for drunk driving. If your caught and don't hurt anyone, it will literally cost you $10K plus when it is all said and done before you can drive again.
I know friends who have literally STOPPED drinking and gone sober after getting a DUI, so I know it works.
I would love to have illegal gun possession charges have a $10K-20K fine attached to them.
you can buy all equipment and materials needed to make your own ammunition right here on the net. never have to walk into a store.
last time i checked drunk driving is still killing thousands a year. and drivers that commit vehicular homicide most times get light sentences and are out again in a car in a matter of months. ready to strike again.
you can fine a drunk driver however much you want to, and take their licenses, unless you cut off their arms they can still drive can't they ? you can fine them but they are still out in public and fines are like credit card bills, if you don't pay they just keep adding up. the law , depending on where you live in the u.s. , are most times laxed for drunk drivers.
so attaching a 10-20K fine on illegal gun possession, that would help things how ? you have anyone from rappers, hollywood stars, and government officials carrying illegal weapons all the time. think they will pay that fine ?

i really think studying the u.k. will only show how different their soceity is from ours. not better or worse, just different. how about we use the money for that study on something better , like how many murders we turn back out into the street every year here in america.

i find it's hard to judge a country you don't live in. that's why i am not judging the u.k. and saying they need to change their laws. they can do what they want it's their country.

but for someone that is farrrrrr across the water, it's hard to judge how you react to something so close to your home.

what might work for some , won't for others

Marcel
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mi3Racer
How about this one

i was a student in class
some crazy ass mofo walks in and sits down
he couldn't buy a gun because there were laws preventing it
No lifes down.


The Facts:
2001 Gun Deaths (couldn't get any recent years facts)
UK - 73
USA - 11,671

UK Population - Around 60 Million
USA Population - Just below 300 Million

So multiply the gun deaths in the UK by 5 and that is 365 Homicide cases if the population was the same as the USA.

How do you explain this?
a lot has changed in the world since 2001 mi3racer. and although more current figures might look close to the same, what is the major cause for deaths in the u.k. ?? on the crime side of things that is ???

Marcel
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by FUJIMO
so what you are trying to say is if cho couldn't have got a gun , none of this would have happened ? you honestly believe that ? HONESTLY !!?? c'mon, look at oklahoma city, not one shot fired and how many died there ? and i know for a fact that there was a bus and train bombing in the u.k. and there wasn't a shot fired there either , but yet how many lives were taken. and when it happens in the u.k. your civilans have the same fear for their lives as we americans do. only difference is, over here we have guns in our homes to protect us from having one of these wack jobs walk right in on us. over there you guys are like grazing sheep. with all do respect mi3racer, what do you have for protection of your wife, if you have one, and family, if you have one ??

maybe that is what i need to be asking. no one on here so far said that they have a carry permit and have a gun to go along with it. i guess i am the only one on here with a permit and gun's and the right the training to use it legally if neccesary .

i am not speaking of just protection at home, and just not mi3racer. i personally have a gun in almost every room of my home ready at any given moment. and where there isn't a gun, i have an axe handle sitting in the corner. one way or the other, if i am broken into and my life , as well as my families, is in danger, you will be dealt with and will not go to jail, just the morgue.


wardo, i can only wish our state laws were as nice as your in texas. i have heard many great things about texas law. i even heard you guys have an open carry law, is that true ? when i carry i do it concealed because that is state law. however, if it was changed to an open carry law, i would still carry concealed in certain areas because it scares some people when they see guns. and those are the ones that think we need to outlaw them and carry mace to protect ourselves from an attack.

proud savage owner, that is it exactly in short.

as much as anyone would like to think guns are not accessible to "anyone" ,they are, therefore any other hypothesis or theory about what could have happened is bologna.

it could have just as easily been anything else. bomb, car, plane, sword, poison gas , anthrax, and the list continues. continues away from guns !!

Marcel
What happens if during one of your protecting sessions, you miss Or the bullet goes astray and kills somebody else outside strolling by?
Very possible.
How are you protecting/providing for your family if your in jail for involuntary manslaughter?
This isn't a poke at you Marcel, just a point in general.
Sombody brought up the point about having a gun when Cho walked in.
Well what if you missed?
What if by missing you piss him off and kills his first 5 victims. You then shoot and kill him.
(Mind you, we do not have a time machine, so you do not know he was going to kill 33 people.)
People will now ask for YOUR head! They will claim that there was no way of knowing he would have killed anyone until you provoked him by shooting at him.
They will claim that you should have let authorities take care of it.
They will put those 5 deaths on YOUR head.
Or what if you missed and killed somebody else?
You then re-aim and kill Cho.
Well guess what.
Victims killed:
Cho=0
You=1
Like I said there is no time machine. What are you going to say? He would have killed 33 people? I saved a massacre?
Hell, I'll bet you even Cho's parents would sue you before you went off to jail.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by R40Victim
We're not Brittish, we're American, huge cultural difference. The Brittish also have a strong public transit system, as does most of Europe. A larger portion of the population doesn't even own cars. Do you think we'd be willing to give up ours? I use that as an example, since you probably own a car, and likely you wouldn't give it up. Your willingness to give up your car is about how willing to give up guns the rest of America is...and gun owners would site similar reasons.
Also look at the landmass size of England.

USA is 3,718,695 sq mi with 80 /sq mi density
England is 50,346 sq mi with 976 /sq mi density
Illinois is 57,918 sq mi with 223.4/sq mi density

Public Transit just does not work in the US unless it is a major city.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by scoobydo
Sombody brought up the point about having a gun when Cho walked in.
Well what if you missed?
What if by missing you piss him off and kills his first 5 victims. You then shoot and kill him.
(Mind you, we do not have a time machine, so you do not know he was going to kill 33 people.)
People will now ask for YOUR head! They will claim that there was no way of knowing he would have killed anyone until you provoked him by shooting at him.
They will claim that you should have let authorities take care of it.
They will put those 5 deaths on YOUR head.
Or what if you missed and killed somebody else?
You then re-aim and kill Cho.
Well guess what.
Victims killed:
Cho=0
You=1
Like I said there is no time machine. What are you going to say? He would have killed 33 people? I saved a massacre?
Hell, I'll bet you even Cho's parents would sue you before you went off to jail.
Thats why when you buy a gun, you go to the range. You shoot, and shoot often. I try to shoot my shotgun every other month or so, just a shot or two, just to stay on top of my game for when deer season rolls around. Depending on department rules and reqs, some police officers have a set number of hours, or set number of rounds they must fire off at a range to stay proficient with thier firearm.

Had Cho walked into a classroom where someone was packing - he would have already killed 2 people, he would have allready mailed off his dillusional video tapes - and you'd be the hero. On what grounds would Cho's parents sue on. I do understand what you are saying, but the VT thing is just a bad example for your idea there.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:13 AM
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My father is an NRA member and I grew up around guns. I agree with most of what was said above. I learned to respect and shoot a gun when I was very young. Stricter gun laws would only make it harder for innocent people to obtain weapons. Most bad guys don't go out and legally buy their weapons (VT was an exception). Most criminals steal guns to use in crimes. Maybe gun education is an answer. It wouldn't stop the bad guys but it would teach the good guys how to defend themselves.
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