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Old 10-17-2006, 06:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
I come from the world where we were never trained to "shoot to kill" always "shoot to stop!" Big rounds are great, but carrying a weapon capable of shooting them isn't always possible in the real world. I always liked my 38 snub nose. Pretty much carry a real little gun, figure if I have to use it it's gonna be real close range and I'm just going to empty it...

Funny thing was at work it took us years to get away from FMJ ammo... You had the usual libs crying that hollow points were "more deadly" truth was that the FMJ were going right through things and people causing more problems.

Well.....shoot to kill and shoot to stop is the same in my book. If the need arises where I have to shoot you....then I'm probably gonna try to kill you. You put yourself in a no win situation by MAKING me shoot you.....then that's your fault. There are a few guns that are just a little bigger than a snub....but with more rounds and more firepower. Just up to the individual on what they are comfortable with. In the house my 12 ga. shotgun is first, then a Springfield .45 or a Beretta .40 are my top choices.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:13 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Truggy1
Guys I'm sorry but you're mistaken about "ball" ammo. The "Full Metal Jacket" is designed to "tumble". The round has very little lead in it, and if the round was to enter let's say your shoulder it would bounce around inside of you killing you right away, not to create battlfield casualties. 5.56mm has very little force behind the round and a ton of speed. 7.62 and 50mm have the force behind the round not the speed. That's why NATO rules of war state that a weapon like the M2 cannot be used against humans. I was a unit armour for 3 years in the Army and got to work with ballistics a lot. The millitary rounds that we use are controlled by NATO not us, all the way to the color of our tracer rounds. Standard ammo has a lot more lead in it for the "mushroom" effect that allows the force behind the round to disapate within the target. That's why a person shot with a over the counter round will survive a gun shot wound over a person shot with a millitay balistic.
Are you talking about the 5.56? If so then you're wrong. I am the units armorer here......you get a tumbler when you offset the balance of the round by severely "nicking" the tip of a 5.56 round. This will also affect the aerodynamics of the round; in about 15 to 30 feet from the barrel, the round will began to tumble. Once the round impacts the body, the position of the round will affect its next trajectory: if it hit your foot, it may wind up coming out of your shoulder. Tumblers are not very effective past 50 meters, and highly inaccurate........just like the AK47.

5.56 rounds are designed to pass through the body, as opposed to rounds that "mushroom". A round that "mushrooms" starts the effect when it comes into contact with the body. As it continues to mushroom, it will do more damage as it expands. So a "mushroomed" round will start as a small hole, but will exit as a very large one. Like I said before, the object is to create battlefield injuries, not casualties. A 5.56 round will pass through (provided that it doesn't strike a bone) and put you on your ass, but you will survive long enough to be medically treated and evac'ed out. But in during so you waste resources in evacuating a wounded soldier, resources that can be put to use in fighting, not evacuation. Rounds like the 5.56 rounds are effectively used for standoff fighting, from 50 meters to 300+ meters.
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Old 10-18-2006, 08:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
Well.....shoot to kill and shoot to stop is the same in my book. If the need arises where I have to shoot you....then I'm probably gonna try to kill you. You put yourself in a no win situation by MAKING me shoot you.....then that's your fault. There are a few guns that are just a little bigger than a snub....but with more rounds and more firepower. Just up to the individual on what they are comfortable with. In the house my 12 ga. shotgun is first, then a Springfield .45 or a Beretta .40 are my top choices.
Even if someone is trying to kill you, if you shoot "to kill" you are violating their civil rights! Just shoot center mass...
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Old 10-18-2006, 11:38 AM   #19
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Civil rights. If I have to shoot you....you have alreadt violated mine!! Shoot center mass...doesn't matter.......you get hit with what I'm gonna shoot you with......it's not gonna be pretty!!!! Bottom line...don't give someone a reason to shoot you!!!
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Old 10-18-2006, 12:55 PM   #20
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cant go wrong with a glock 18c.. this just makes this gun even better ...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...03&q=glock+18c


you can tear some stuff up with that
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Old 10-18-2006, 05:07 PM   #21
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Damn.
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Old 10-19-2006, 08:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SRAD
Civil rights. If I have to shoot you....you have alreadt violated mine!! Shoot center mass...doesn't matter.......you get hit with what I'm gonna shoot you with......it's not gonna be pretty!!!! Bottom line...don't give someone a reason to shoot you!!!
In california you don't have the right to defend yourself from someone trying to kill you. Just wait for the whole state to ban firearms...
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Old 10-22-2006, 07:10 PM   #23
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In Indiana we just made a lifetime personal protection permit. and it is also leagal now to defend yourself in your home or car even with deadly force. Someone finally got a clue, you should'nt have to flee!!!
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Old 10-22-2006, 08:09 PM   #24
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In New Hampshire, we never made a law against using guns for self defense. In fact, I found this:

"Current New Hampshire law allows a person to use deadly force in any location against another in response to deadly force, or to prevent the commission of a serious crime such as kidnapping or forcible sexual assault, where and whenever those crimes may occur.

Current law also allows New Hampshire citizens to use deadly force against intruders in their own homes, regardless of whether the intruder has used or threatened to use deadly force." - http://www.gunguys.com/?cat=53

Like our state motto says, "Live Free or Die". How many other states have the word "Die" in their state motto?

BTW, we are also one of only three states where it is legal to have execution by hanging.
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Old 10-23-2006, 04:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtl1180ny
In california you don't have the right to defend yourself from someone trying to kill you. Just wait for the whole state to ban firearms...
WHAT!!!! Show me where you got your information. Even if so.....I'll take my chances in court....even as liberal as the courts are here. But please show me the California law that prevents me from defending myself from someone that is trying to kill me.
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Old 10-23-2006, 05:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SRAD
WHAT!!!! Show me where you got your information. Even if so.....I'll take my chances in court....even as liberal as the courts are here. But please show me the California law that prevents me from defending myself from someone that is trying to kill me.
Did some digging and found this: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

See pages 29-32.

In case there are any other ?'s about CA's gun laws: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/

CA is nuts. I wouldn't take any chances even if I had Johnny Cochrane and the Chewbacca defense on my side. I am staying right here in gun-crazy NH. BTW, I think deer season opens soon. Time to break out my hunting rifle.
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash727
Did some digging and found this: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

See pages 29-32.

In case there are any other ?'s about CA's gun laws: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/

CA is nuts. I wouldn't take any chances even if I had Johnny Cochrane and the Chewbacca defense on my side. I am staying right here in gun-crazy NH. BTW, I think deer season opens soon. Time to break out my hunting rifle.
well John past away last year
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Old 10-23-2006, 07:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash727
CA is nuts. I wouldn't take any chances even if I had Johnny Cochrane and the Chewbacca defense on my side.


Chewbacca is a Wookie, but he lives on Endor! This does not make sense!
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Old 10-23-2006, 10:09 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash727
Did some digging and found this: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

See pages 29-32.

In case there are any other ?'s about CA's gun laws: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/

CA is nuts. I wouldn't take any chances even if I had Johnny Cochrane and the Chewbacca defense on my side. I am staying right here in gun-crazy NH. BTW, I think deer season opens soon. Time to break out my hunting rifle.

Well.....it's pretty clear to me. I rest my case.
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Old 10-23-2006, 10:35 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash727
BTW, I think deer season opens soon. Time to break out my hunting rifle.
'We just had "T-Zone"

Could have shot the same doe in the morning, and later that night. Came within about 10 yards of me, ate some leaves, walked around for about an hour. Then sunday I had a little fork buck come past me, let it go so it can grow.
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