Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Chat Lounge
Is newer or "better" actually better? >

Is newer or "better" actually better?

Like Tree10Likes
  • 1 Post By gigaplex
  • 2 Post By sosidge
  • 3 Post By herrokero
  • 2 Post By billdelong
  • 1 Post By gigaplex
  • 1 Post By rearviewmirror

Is newer or "better" actually better?

Old 05-18-2021, 12:52 AM
  #1  
Tech Regular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 365
Default Is newer or "better" actually better?

I'm trying to avoid a "which chassis is best" type thread but it may turn into one. I'm not one to uograde every year but will if it makes sense.

I race a Tamiya TA07Pro which is very close to MS spec (most carbon/alloy hopups and Exotek RS7 carbon chassis but missing alloy bulkheads) and I'm very happy with the way it drives, it seems fast and forgiving to me but what do i know. I got 2nd in the b main in the weekend and there was a c main too, also 3rd in F1 so my driving is ok but not the best. This is outdoors on asphalt, 21.5 blinky with a spec motor and speed is on par, so the difference is driver/setup/chassis in that order I think. Most people run the same tyres.

Got talking to a guy who is faster than me and he recently switched from a TRF419 (not sure of version) to a Yokomo BD9 which he bought secondhand and said it was night and day difference. The Yokomo was easier to drive and his laptimes were better. No idea if this was the setup, chassis etc but he did swap esc and motor over but did get a new servo. I also appreciate that some chassis are better for different surfaces (experienced that in offroad) so that could make a difference.

Others run the Express XQ1S or similar cheap chassis through to the latest and greatest.

Now to the point. How much difference would the chassis make? Assuming my TA07 is setup for the track (its pretty good right now) would changing to a new chassis make any real difference (I'm thinking .5sec on a 17sec lap) or is it just placebo and people like new shiny things? I suspect going from a T4 16 to T4 21 may make a difference, but the T4 20 to T4 21 not so much?

The only obvious difference between mine and newer chassis is the shocks - i have tall shocks and towers, newer cars have SSBB dampers and can better fit new bodies like the Bitty Hyper.

Would a new chassis make me faster? Would some new SSBB dampers make me faster? Or will a relatively new carbon car be as good as the next car so practice is key? What have others experienced when changing chassis?
jgil089 is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 01:35 AM
  #2  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
gigaplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 3,604
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

It really depends on the class, track and driver. For outdoor asphalt 21.5, pretty much any chassis can be competitive. If changing chassis does make a big difference, it's likely the setup. Faster classes and/or higher grip tracks will put more emphasis on the chassis.
jgil089 likes this.
gigaplex is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 01:43 AM
  #3  
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 4,043
Default

"New car syndrome" normally accounts for a fair bit of performance improvement!

I've definitely swapped to a new car that has felt great out of the box, but I've also had cars that I could never get along with. So don't discount the possibility that a new car will be faster "for you", even though a 419 and a Yokomo have very few real differences.

The TA07 is a different case though, although you may have it handling well, it is fundamentally overweight with a higher centre of gravity and poorer left-right weight distribution. There is definitely scope for faster laptimes, just from physics alone.

You won't know unless you try. I'd always recommend trying different cars (frankly I recommend trying the cars that make the average drivers look fast!)

New dampers are a waste of money. A cab-forward body will make a difference. One year increments on the XRAY don't make a difference, even multi-year increments don't make much difference, the T4'19 is still a very good car and it isn't that different from a '14.
jgil089 and garnt like this.
sosidge is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 01:55 AM
  #4  
Tech Regular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 365
Default

Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
"New car syndrome" normally accounts for a fair bit of performance improvement!

I've definitely swapped to a new car that has felt great out of the box, but I've also had cars that I could never get along with. So don't discount the possibility that a new car will be faster "for you", even though a 419 and a Yokomo have very few real differences.

The TA07 is a different case though, although you may have it handling well, it is fundamentally overweight with a higher centre of gravity and poorer left-right weight distribution. There is definitely scope for faster laptimes, just from physics alone.

You won't know unless you try. I'd always recommend trying different cars (frankly I recommend trying the cars that make the average drivers look fast!)

New dampers are a waste of money. A cab-forward body will make a difference. One year increments on the XRAY don't make a difference, even multi-year increments don't make much difference, the T4'19 is still a very good car and it isn't that different from a '14.
My TA07 is underweight (have to add weight or avoid scrutineering as I'm not in for championship points) as the RS7 carbon chassis conversion is a traditional double deck layout and the Exotek motor mount drops the motor a bit to further lower the CG. So I believe the car is close to a current top shelf car (but don't know for sure).

The only reason for mentioning the SSBB dampers is they are lower so will fit the new bodies, no idea why they would be better other than marginally lower CG otherwise.

Probably worth asking some of the guys to try their cars to see if they are better I guess.

Still interested to hear others experiences
jgil089 is offline  
Old 05-18-2021, 03:49 AM
  #5  
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 166
Default

Imo any car from the past 7 years are competitive and can be made to work. Biggest advantage of newer cars are a ton adjustability such as adjustable suspension mounts and especially flex.

If you want to give your TA07 another go, try the TRF419 suspension upgrade set (420 suspension). A lot of people feel the car inexplicably drives better including me.
jgil089, V8 Rumble and h2e like this.
herrokero is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 07:02 AM
  #6  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (33)
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin,TX
Posts: 5,390
Trader Rating: 33 (97%+)
Default

It's been MANY years since I've ran on-road classes, and I'll never forget the day I test drove an Awesomatix ... I bought it off the guy that same day and it was a game changer for me.... went from middle of the pack to battling for TQ in the USGT class.

While setup is VERY important... many cars had different tuning windows and that's where you get key advantages.... where Awesomatix lowers their COG by integrating the suspension parts into the arms and this generates phenomenal corner speed in the chicanes.


jiml and jgil089 like this.
billdelong is offline  
Old 05-19-2021, 06:59 PM
  #7  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
gigaplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 3,604
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
It's been MANY years since I've ran on-road classes, and I'll never forget the day I test drove an Awesomatix ... I bought it off the guy that same day and it was a game changer for me.... went from middle of the pack to battling for TQ in the USGT class.

While setup is VERY important... many cars had different tuning windows and that's where you get key advantages.... where Awesomatix lowers their COG by integrating the suspension parts into the arms and this generates phenomenal corner speed in the chicanes.
If the track is low grip (ie outdoor asphalt) and doesn't have a lot of chicanes, the lower CoG doesn't really come into play. AMX has fallen out of favour where I race because they tweak much easier than Xray and aren't any faster for our tracks.
jgil089 likes this.
gigaplex is offline  
Old 05-20-2021, 12:37 AM
  #8  
Tech Regular
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 365
Default

I stopped into my LHS today who sells Xpress and he said the TA07 isn't ideal, and that a different car would be faster. The best thing is he said I can try his XQ10 next race meet, and he will drive my TA07 and see if there is much difference. This guy is fast, so he may find my TA07 awful and I may find his XQ10 awful but it will be interesting to see. If I change chassis it will probably be an XQ10 because my LHS sells them and he brings parts to the track. Also they are relatively cheap (and come with everything)
jgil089 is offline  
Old 05-20-2021, 03:04 AM
  #9  
Tech Master
iTrader: (17)
 
rearviewmirror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne / Austin
Posts: 1,923
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

The question was “is newer better”? I guess at the upper echelons of ability it might matter, but for the masses “marginal gains” or “the law of diminishing returns” applies. I left racing 12 years ago, but thinking back to how my cars were setup I doubt, given the same level, I’d be any faster with a newer car as I probably wasn’t anywhere reaching the potential of the old one.

It’s like someone who is average riding a motorcycle, will they be faster on a new Yamaha R1 versus a 10 year old one? Probably not, as the differences are really only noticed at the upper limit of the performance curve.

But marketing is a wonderful thing, we want to have the best, latest, highest technology, it feels good.
jgil089 likes this.
rearviewmirror is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.