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Old 05-29-2018, 06:34 PM
  #16  
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real life cars are not RC toys so all your saying dont apply.so no car no real on hardtop experience.so null n void.all 1:1
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:43 PM
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We all know our toy RC can seriously push beyond in some circumstances what a real car is capable of. No human to feel the force of gravity. Standing back flips, mid air circus’s tricks, cornering with enuff force to flip pancar. I don’t doubt that the sub 1 sec mark is able to be passed. Best I could find is 1.117 for 132 feet.




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Old 05-29-2018, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by the rc guy View Post
real life cars are not RC toys so all your saying dont apply.so no car no real on hardtop experience.so null n void.all 1:1
my traxxas slash 2wd launches absurdly fast.


Also how about a warning next time Billy, crack kills.
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Old 05-29-2018, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
you have to appreciate a few good chuckles...

I guess if you're going to go drag racing on a less than perfectly prepared surface get a touring car or something larger scale like an e-buggy, they will be more under control with lower grip. If you have something more formal they make RC drag race kits that are beautiful and purpose built.
Raced bracket with a heavy 4x4 buggy with a silver can motor. I used to mop up every chance with my Kyosho Lazer ZX. I cut the tree the same every time and the car always ran within a tenth of a second.

This was when I was younger (like 30 years younger ) and I mostly raced off/on-road during the summer and carpet during the winter. We'd go run the drags in bracket because it was run-what-ya-brung. The real cars were $2000 of graphite this, titanium that and the best motors and cells that you could buy. You had to have a REAL job to race the fast classes. Most racers were older guys with too much money.

One day, one of the local $pender$ (we'll call him Larry) was ribbing us because we didn't race "fast". So me and OMR (Old Man Rubbershorts, don't ask) were in the LHS the following week and just shooting the shit as it was always the meet-n-greet place. The shop owner pulls out a top-fuel body that one of the racers had donated and says we could have it if we built a car to shut Larry up. It had been crashed and the nose was all torn up but we could chop it so we decided to give it a go. Now this wasn't the first time we had wanted to get into the big dog class and we had been thinking about how to do it. We had some pretty crazy ideas.

So we left the store with a free Top-Fuel body, a bottle of cyanocrylate and a bunch of balsa wood.
OMR had an old Parma Hemi-Coupe and so we decide to use the motor pod off of that along with some Associated RC12L parts to make the front end. Everything in between was a sub-five minute balsa chassis. (we could actually build a chassis in about three minutes under pressure when we broke the car)
Whereas most of the racers shared info freely amongst each other, the drag guys kept EVERYTHING secret. They wouldn't tell us what tires or traction compound they were running but it was all moot because we didn't want to spend the money anyway. No, we were going to make a statement on the cheap. Sofar we were only $20 out-of-pocket with this thing.

As we were debating whether we should sacrifice some foam carpet tires I noticed OMR's exercise bench. The foam pads on the leg curl were dope. We cut one up and glued the pieces on some wheels and then trued them with a drill and some coarse files. They were pretty sweet looking but by themselves they weren't going to cut it. I'll be damned if I was going to pay $25/oz for the special drag sauce so in desperation I hit the supermarket and bought a bottle of corn syrup. Yep.
Oh but wait, it gets better.

$100+ for a super-duper matched pushed boosted injected drag battery?!!! I think not. I worked at NCR (National Cash Register) at the time and I had access to a buch of different batteries. We settled on some Sanyo 2/3 A NiCad batteries. There was no rules on cell count so we had a twelve-cell pack only because that's the max my Astro-Flight 111 charger could do. IIRC the drag guys were running 7 to 8 cell batteries and mostly using N cells. Whatever they were, they were crazy expensive. We were going for a lightweight car since we wouldn't compete on money spent.
So what totally bad-ass motor did we end up going with? We peeled the stickers off a ROAR-legal 27 turn stock motor. I want to say it was a Trinity Slot-Machine but I honestly don't remember. Whatever lack in RPMs it had in stock racing was being made up by running more cells. We were gonna go, blow or put a hole in the wall with this thing.

We tested it Saturday night in the street with some short bursts just to make sure it would go straight and called it good. OMR was in construction so we used a micro-servo to actuate a household light switch that was wired directly from the battery to the motor. The switch would sometimes fuse internally so we set it up that reverse would mechanically short the motor terminals to act as brakes. This would also dead-short the battery so we had a solder-pop fuse that would blow instantly when we triggered it. To reset it we just soldered in a new blob and it was good to go.

After keeping everything hush-hush for the week we showed up at the drags on Sunday and paid the entry fee. Two minutes later everybody was wondering what we had brought. We told them they could see it when it came out for its maiden run. We kept a towel on it until it was on the line. OMR was doing the first pull so we staged the car WITH the towel on it. When the other guy staged I pulled the towel and within a few seconds the lights went green and off it went. We had another guy at the end of the strip to retrieve/hide it after the run. Forget what the car did on its first pass, just to see a bunch of middle-aged men act like babies over our car was priceless. What did our car run? a 2.2 second pass when the fast guys were right at 2.1 seconds. The stock motor on 12 cells had a lot of low-end torque and it popped out the box way faster than those high-zoot Astro-Flight monster motors the fast guys were using. Those cars would roll out a bit, almost stuck in their traction compound and then launch after a few tire rotations. Our car, with a thin gooping of corn syrop on the tires shot out of the box like a firecracker. It was probably half the weight of what those guys were used to with their fancy graphite chassis. After that initial run nobody was laughing anymore, in fact it was a complete shitshow.

We were only able to keep it under wraps for two runs before they got wise to our tactics and waited for it at the end of the track. On the 3rd run of the day (and a 2.0something E.T. to beat the track record) it went sideways and hit a trash bin. It disintegrated on impact and everybody finally saw the secret of the balsa rail. Of course we built another one on the spot and promptly crashed it on the next pass. We were done for the day. We walked away with the track record which we kept for the season despite that we didn't come out to all the drag events. We were so busy laughing that we didn't see just how badly this bunch of grown men were taking it and it all came down to an 11-8 vote at the AGM for the next racing season. What was voted on? If you guessed a minimum weight you got it Pontiac! Oh and they finally made a battery rule too. And just like that the balsa rail was outlawed and retired. Sorta.

It came back the following year with a D-type rocket motor strapped to it.

But that's another story.




Sean
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by the rc guy View Post
Definatly do every time some non drag racer says all this stuff from youtube.. unless you Dragrace no one has a clue here they can say what the want post mimi to insult others oh well. get to a darg location and run.only 1 2wd in my group. and all will go way faster than 100mph. the little 1/16 vulcan converted to E a 7500kv on 3 cells.

right .. lol lol at the slow people..
Did you get out post-it notes and write your top speed on them?
You said earlier that your gtp car could do 132 feet in 0.6 seconds, nearly twice as fast as the national record! Top speed of 122 mph? You would need a trap speed of almost 300 to do that time. Come on man, this isnt model rockets, thats harder acceleration than a slot car, by a lot, and they only race 55 feet.
You are right about one thing though, I don't RC drag race except down the back stretch, but I do know a little about power and physics. I don't know what you do on your days off, but it isn't 132 feet in 6 tents of a second with a GTE car unless it involves an air cannon or something.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Radi0Flyer View Post
Raced bracket with a heavy 4x4 buggy with a silver can motor. I used to mop up every chance with my Kyosho Lazer ZX. I cut the tree the same every time and the car always ran within a tenth of a second.

This was when I was younger (like 30 years younger ) and I mostly raced off/on-road during the summer and carpet during the winter. We'd go run the drags in bracket because it was run-what-ya-brung. The real cars were $2000 of graphite this, titanium that and the best motors and cells that you could buy. You had to have a REAL job to race the fast classes. Most racers were older guys with too much money.

One day, one of the local $pender$ (we'll call him Larry) was ribbing us because we didn't race "fast". So me and OMR (Old Man Rubbershorts, don't ask) were in the LHS the following week and just shooting the shit as it was always the meet-n-greet place. The shop owner pulls out a top-fuel body that one of the racers had donated and says we could have it if we built a car to shut Larry up. It had been crashed and the nose was all torn up but we could chop it so we decided to give it a go. Now this wasn't the first time we had wanted to get into the big dog class and we had been thinking about how to do it. We had some pretty crazy ideas.

So we left the store with a free Top-Fuel body, a bottle of cyanocrylate and a bunch of balsa wood.
OMR had an old Parma Hemi-Coupe and so we decide to use the motor pod off of that along with some Associated RC12L parts to make the front end. Everything in between was a sub-five minute balsa chassis. (we could actually build a chassis in about three minutes under pressure when we broke the car)
Whereas most of the racers shared info freely amongst each other, the drag guys kept EVERYTHING secret. They wouldn't tell us what tires or traction compound they were running but it was all moot because we didn't want to spend the money anyway. No, we were going to make a statement on the cheap. Sofar we were only $20 out-of-pocket with this thing.

As we were debating whether we should sacrifice some foam carpet tires I noticed OMR's exercise bench. The foam pads on the leg curl were dope. We cut one up and glued the pieces on some wheels and then trued them with a drill and some coarse files. They were pretty sweet looking but by themselves they weren't going to cut it. I'll be damned if I was going to pay $25/oz for the special drag sauce so in desperation I hit the supermarket and bought a bottle of corn syrup. Yep.
Oh but wait, it gets better.

$100+ for a super-duper matched pushed boosted injected drag battery?!!! I think not. I worked at NCR (National Cash Register) at the time and I had access to a buch of different batteries. We settled on some Sanyo 2/3 A NiCad batteries. There was no rules on cell count so we had a twelve-cell pack only because that's the max my Astro-Flight 111 charger could do. IIRC the drag guys were running 7 to 8 cell batteries and mostly using N cells. Whatever they were, they were crazy expensive. We were going for a lightweight car since we wouldn't compete on money spent.
So what totally bad-ass motor did we end up going with? We peeled the stickers off a ROAR-legal 27 turn stock motor. I want to say it was a Trinity Slot-Machine but I honestly don't remember. Whatever lack in RPMs it had in stock racing was being made up by running more cells. We were gonna go, blow or put a hole in the wall with this thing.

We tested it Saturday night in the street with some short bursts just to make sure it would go straight and called it good. OMR was in construction so we used a micro-servo to actuate a household light switch that was wired directly from the battery to the motor. The switch would sometimes fuse internally so we set it up that reverse would mechanically short the motor terminals to act as brakes. This would also dead-short the battery so we had a solder-pop fuse that would blow instantly when we triggered it. To reset it we just soldered in a new blob and it was good to go.

After keeping everything hush-hush for the week we showed up at the drags on Sunday and paid the entry fee. Two minutes later everybody was wondering what we had brought. We told them they could see it when it came out for its maiden run. We kept a towel on it until it was on the line. OMR was doing the first pull so we staged the car WITH the towel on it. When the other guy staged I pulled the towel and within a few seconds the lights went green and off it went. We had another guy at the end of the strip to retrieve/hide it after the run. Forget what the car did on its first pass, just to see a bunch of middle-aged men act like babies over our car was priceless. What did our car run? a 2.2 second pass when the fast guys were right at 2.1 seconds. The stock motor on 12 cells had a lot of low-end torque and it popped out the box way faster than those high-zoot Astro-Flight monster motors the fast guys were using. Those cars would roll out a bit, almost stuck in their traction compound and then launch after a few tire rotations. Our car, with a thin gooping of corn syrop on the tires shot out of the box like a firecracker. It was probably half the weight of what those guys were used to with their fancy graphite chassis. After that initial run nobody was laughing anymore, in fact it was a complete shitshow.

We were only able to keep it under wraps for two runs before they got wise to our tactics and waited for it at the end of the track. On the 3rd run of the day (and a 2.0something E.T. to beat the track record) it went sideways and hit a trash bin. It disintegrated on impact and everybody finally saw the secret of the balsa rail. Of course we built another one on the spot and promptly crashed it on the next pass. We were done for the day. We walked away with the track record which we kept for the season despite that we didn't come out to all the drag events. We were so busy laughing that we didn't see just how badly this bunch of grown men were taking it and it all came down to an 11-8 vote at the AGM for the next racing season. What was voted on? If you guessed a minimum weight you got it Pontiac! Oh and they finally made a battery rule too. And just like that the balsa rail was outlawed and retired. Sorta.

It came back the following year with a D-type rocket motor strapped to it.

But that's another story.




Sean
Good job man, i've been in a similar situation in dirt oval racing where a little thinking and better driving can get you a long way over guys who claim to know all about the sport. I also hate it when people try to keep secrets like that's going to matter, for Gods sake your fellow racers knowing what tire compound you are running isn't going to make you lose.

Balsa chassis... you could have done something with that. Maybe consider that super-thin fiberglass they made T-bars out of?
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:44 AM
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I think top fuel with insane power to weight ratio does 0-100 in 0.8 seconds.

I think a 3 pound rc car would need 12 horsepower to have similar power to weight to those cars.
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Old 05-30-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Good job man, i've been in a similar situation in dirt oval racing where a little thinking and better driving can get you a long way over guys who claim to know all about the sport. I also hate it when people try to keep secrets like that's going to matter, for Gods sake your fellow racers knowing what tire compound you are running isn't going to make you lose.

Balsa chassis... you could have done something with that. Maybe consider that super-thin fiberglass they made T-bars out of?
They would keep everything secret from EACH OTHER too! I'd never seen such attitude before. It was really strange.

The car was about 24 inches long so it needed some some kind of stiffness to keep from drooping in the center. The expensive graphite chassis were just thick enough to accomplish that but thin fiberglass didn't stand a chance. We simply glued strips of 1/4" x 1/4" balsa along the sides to make a C-channel type chassis. It still had to flex a little otherwise the car didn't hook up as good. There was way more engineering going into our car than what anybody else was doing. They were just spending money.

Another sorta related funny story because you mentioned slot cars...

We had a slot track in town for a while. A nice 8 lane affair and it was really popular back then. We'd go rent a car for the night and have some fun. Anyway, there was a no tire traction compound rule in effect. The track owner didn't like the smell and claimed it ruined the track surface. No problem, everybody was in the same boat, or so they thought.

We also had a no traction compound rule in carpet racing but that only meant the wintergreen solvent-based stuff. We had been rubbing hand cream and sunblock on our tires for years to make them stick. So we're at the slot track (me, OMR and a couple other RC guys) with these rented cars which were just horrible to begin with. Some of them were so badly tweaked it was a wonder they worked at all. But we hand tweaked them back into shape as best we could and we would go up against the track locals who some of them had dedicated pits at the track and kept their tools and stuff there. These guys made their own cars with wire and solder. It was pretty amazing to see. So anyway us RC guys were saucing up the rock hard tires with sunblock to make them stick and using Trinity Rev Comm Drops on the motors which the slot guys had no idea about at the time. We were also using it inside the crusty controllers they would give us to make sure we had the best connection possible. Between all that we could make the cars pretty much go faster than most people and stick well enough that we wouldn't have to let off the trottle. The local fast guys had us covered with lighter cars and better motors but they still had to actually DRIVE the cars. It almost came to blows when I asked for some tape to hold the trigger so I could go to the washroom. The final straw was me eating a hamburger from one hand with the controller in the other hand and not even looking at the car going around the track. By then the gig was up and the shit hit the fan. The track owner took the cars back and gave us all our money and banned us from racing.
The funniest was seeing the fast guys taking turns touching and smelling the tires until OMR told them we jizzed on them to make 'em sticky. That's when they kicked us out.

Ironically, only a few weeks later, Carter (who owned Carter's Hobby in town where we used to hang out) said there was a remarkable increase in the sales of Comm Drops. It was all the slot guys who were buying it and they also discovered the sunblock trick too. Good times.



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Old 05-30-2018, 08:02 AM
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can not get photo to display...

real drag car.. TV, Tommy Ivo.. 4 engine, 4 wheel drive....
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by chuck_thehammer View Post
can not get photo to display...

real drag car.. TV, Tommy Ivo.. 4 engine, 4 wheel drive....

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Old 05-30-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post


Thank You.. that was the photo I was trying to Post.
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:04 AM
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Anyone used one of the cars from Drag Race Concepts? Im thinking of going that route. Thoughts
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Radi0Flyer View Post
They would keep everything secret from EACH OTHER too! I'd never seen such attitude before. It was really strange.

The car was about 24 inches long so it needed some some kind of stiffness to keep from drooping in the center. The expensive graphite chassis were just thick enough to accomplish that but thin fiberglass didn't stand a chance. We simply glued strips of 1/4" x 1/4" balsa along the sides to make a C-channel type chassis. It still had to flex a little otherwise the car didn't hook up as good. There was way more engineering going into our car than what anybody else was doing. They were just spending money.

Sean
By not liking secrets I didn't mean that what you did was wrong in any way because it seemed like it was just for a good laugh, I meant racers who take things super serious and start to refuse information, which I know happens in oval and apparently in drag racing as well at some point...

I would have loved to see a picture of that balsa chassis.
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Old 05-30-2018, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
By not liking secrets I didn't mean that what you did was wrong in any way because it seemed like it was just for a good laugh, I meant racers who take things super serious and start to refuse information, which I know happens in oval and apparently in drag racing as well at some point...

I would have loved to see a picture of that balsa chassis.
Yeah we were just pushing their buttons. We were going to let everybody see the thing anyway. It's funny how everyone who wasn't a drag racer knew it was just a gag. We never expected it to go as fast as it did. I'm a bit of a smartass by nature so I never lost sight of the big picture but after the first runs we certainly got a bit more serious about it. I think what really upset the old codgers wasn't that we were going fast. It was that we were going fast without spending a lot of money. And if by chance we gained some kind of knowledge we would share it freely. To them that was a foreign concept.

I'll have to ask OMR if he has any pictures of it. I personally didn't take any. You have to remember this was long before smartphones or even decent digital cameras.



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Old 05-30-2018, 10:57 AM
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4wd for drag racing is diminished returns. any gains you might have in traction get lost with weight transfer off the line to the rear and the drag of the more complex drivetrain once the front tires make contact with the pavement. speaking from an internal combustion standpoint RWD 2wd is more efficient and transfers the most power to the ground. 2wd dominates the class. the same occurs with multiple motors, it is impossible to sync them to the level needed to create max rpms through the power curve without one dragging another down through the transmission. plus the loss of power caused by the transmission or multiple transmissions. take a Built up Ford C6 automatic i can have a 55% HP loss through it. this is also why you might see 1 or 2 speed transmissions dominating a drag event.


you could say 4wd in drag would have it's day depending on the surface you are racing on. in a street situation unprepared surface a 4wd could overcome a 2wd because of the extra traction and get enough ahead that the 2wd cannot make up the difference in a 1/8 or 1/4 mile.
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